Are Tories welcome at Glastonbury

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Is she though?  I thought anyone who has taken early retirement would be solely relying on a private pension until reaching the age eligible for an OAP.

.... while failing to pay income tax contributions of the same scale as they would have done if they'd have kept on working, and failing to contribute towards the wealth of the nation via the value of their work.

To me the words "from each according to his ability to each according to his needs" should apply to everyone equally for all of the years that society deems people should work for.

Someone shouldn't be permitted to duck out of their years of contributions to society, whether poor, rich, or in the middle.

We *all* have a duty to contribute towards *all of* humanity's existence.

[eFestivals]

Just now, KingPin said:

You do know that taxation is legalised theft right?

if you want to go that way....

Then so is YOUR healthcare, YOUR schooling, YOUR food, YOUR air, and YOUR life.

If we're playing fuck you and fuck everyone else - which you seem to want to play - then I'm going to say fuck you and your me-me-me attitude, and my fuck-you says you should fucking die for your sin of selfishness.

But hey, you can't have any objection to that, cos you know your life is theft, right, and the thieving c**ts should just fuck off. 

[KingPin]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

.... while failing to pay income tax contributions of the same scale as they would have done if they'd have kept on working, and failing to contribute towards the wealth of the nation via the value of their work.

To me the words "from each according to his ability to each according to his needs" should apply to everyone equally for all of the years that society deems people should work for.

Someone shouldn't be permitted to duck out of their years of contributions to society, whether poor, rich, or in the middle.

We *all* have a duty to contribute towards *all of* humanity's existence.

Well I take back what I said about you being classically liberal. 

This is an outrageous statement and completely disgregards the indiviuals liberty and personal choice. So what if somebody works hard and saves up a retirement fund sufficient enough that they can retire at 50? And it's not like some people don't choose to work past retirement age. And why should other people decide how long you should work for. Ridiculous. 

Life is theft  That's outrageous.

[arcade fireman]

3 minutes ago, KingPin said:

I didn't I was just making the point that it goes both ways. FWIW from what I've read of your posts on here you seem to me to be classically liberal of a centrists position. This might be wrong of course, but that's the impression I get from you.

You do know that taxation is legalised theft right?

 Looks like someone's been reading too many libertarian memes on Facebook. You are a fucking idiot if that's what you believe.

If taxation is legalised theft, then you are also stealing from the state every time you use the NHS, every time you use infrastructure which has been funded by the state, every time you want assistance from the police, every time you or your children needs education provided by the state (and believe me it seems like you're in dire need of an education).

Taxation isn't theft. It's a system of raising money done entirely by consent of society at large. If you want to set up a libertarian party which does away with tax (but also does away with publicly funded services) you're welcome to run a platform. See how many votes you get. 

[KingPin]

1 minute ago, arcade fireman said:

 Looks like someone's been reading too many libertarian memes on Facebook. You are a fucking idiot if that's what you believe.

If taxation is legalised theft, then you are also stealing from the state every time you use the NHS, every time you use infrastructure which has been funded by the state, every time you want assistance from the police, every time you or your children needs education provided by the state (and believe me it seems like you're in dire need of an education).

Taxation isn't theft. It's a system of raising money done entirely by consent of society at large. If you want to set up a libertarian party which does away with tax (but also does away with publicly funded services) you're welcome to run a platform. See how many votes you get. 

Who actually wants to pay the ammount of tax that they currently do (let alone more)? I think you'll find very few people who wouldn't take a cut to their tax bill and it's not consent when the only other option is imprisionment, that's force.

[arcade fireman]

2 minutes ago, KingPin said:

Who actually wants to pay the ammount of tax that they currently do (let alone more)? I think you'll find very few people who wouldn't take a cut to their tax bill and it's not consent when the only other option is imprisionment, that's force.

You're saying taxation is theft. You are now arguing that people think they pay too much tax. That's a different argument altogether. 

But would these people want to live in a world where no one pays any tax? Where there is no state health system, where there is no state funded education, where people have to hire private security instead of having the police force etc? Like fuck they would. 

And of course people would like the idea of paying less tax. But they'd also like our NHS to be far stronger than it is now. They also want smaller class sizes and better school results. They also want tuition fees which aren't absurdly high. How on earth do you think that would be funded?

Sorry but you just come across as being so, so dense. It's like talking to a six year old who doesn't know how the world works. 

[KingPin]

1 minute ago, arcade fireman said:

You're saying taxation is theft. You are now arguing that people think they pay too much tax. That's a different argument altogether. 

But would these people want to live in a world where no one pays any tax? Where there is no state health system, where there is no state funded education, where people have to hire private security instead of having the police force etc? Like fuck they would. 

And of course people would like the idea of paying less tax. But they'd also like our NHS to be far stronger than it is now. They also want smaller class sizes and better school results. They also want tuition fees which aren't absurdly high. How on earth do you think that would be funded?

Sorry but you just come across as being so, so dense. It's like talking to a six year old who doesn't know how the world works. 

It is theft because the consequence of not paying it is jail, there is no choice in the matter.

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

6 minutes ago, KingPin said:

It is theft because the consequence of not paying it is jail, there is no choice in the matter.

If you murder someone you also go to Jail, does that mean it's wrong not to be able to go around murdering people?

[arcade fireman]

4 minutes ago, KingPin said:

It is theft because the consequence of not paying it is jail, there is no choice in the matter.

There is choice. It's called a democracy. It's called society. If you live in any society, you agree to abide by the rules set out.

If society doesn't want to pay taxes and doesn't want to have public services in turn, then it can vote for no taxes at the ballot box. Surprisingly there are almost no countries which operate this regime, save for extremely oil rich countries or small dependencies. What does that tell you? 

[eFestivals]

10 minutes ago, KingPin said:

Well I take back what I said about you being classically liberal. 

This is an outrageous statement and completely disgregards the indiviuals liberty and personal choice.

Yep, it disregards oh-so-perfect-me-me-me because there's more than oh-so-perfect-me-me-me in the world.

Not everyone is blessed with "individual liberty and personal choice", but your answer is fuck them, because it impacts on you.

But it's me that's the outrageous. Yeah, I know. :lol:

 

10 minutes ago, KingPin said:

So what if somebody works hard and saves up a retirement fund sufficient enough that they can retire at 50?

Money is not resources.

Savings are what decides the future distribution of resources, and is not related to the past creation of resources (only to how those resources were valued at the time of creation).

Care to tell me why you believe you have a greater right to resources you've not helped to create on an equitable basis to other humans?

 

10 minutes ago, KingPin said:

And it's not like some people don't choose to work past retirement age.

If someone wishes to contribute more to society to everyone's benefit, that's generous of them.

Just as your opposite view of people being entitled to live off the back of others by not making the same years of contributions is selfish and greedy.

 

10 minutes ago, KingPin said:

And why should other people decide how long you should work for. Ridiculous. 

You'll be handing back your state pension, then, I presume?

Or you're talking self-serving twaddle.

 

10 minutes ago, KingPin said:

Life is theft  That's outrageous.

So you paid for your schooling?

Want to tell me what work you were doing aged 5?

So you stole your schooling. YOU are the outrage, because you use bullshit analogies to justify your want of others to support you.

[eFestivals]

31 minutes ago, KingPin said:

from what I've read of your posts on here you seem to me to be classically liberal of a centrists position.

that's just what you want to believe for your own self-satisfaction - cos you won't like your conclusions if you're smart enough to think them thru.

However, I do recognise that most people are those centrists, and I'm not so dumb as to believe there's many with my extreme views - and certainly not all of these new Labour supporters who've happily been voting tory/lib dem/UKIP until someone waved the opportunity of free stuff at them.

Cos I'm not so daft as to believe it's free. You cannot have the state alter the distribution of finite resources without people noticing they don't have the same personal control of resources that they had previously.

Edited July 11, 2017 by eFestivals

[Alex DeLarge]

11 hours ago, babyblade41 said:

Instead of whinging about how little benefit you get try doing what I did and find work it's not that hard, admittedly you might have to do the low paid jobs but from them you can build..far too many want everyone to pay for them.. no solution apart from work and working is what gets results simples ..if I can do it as a single female with 2 small children then anyone can 

I'm sorry but this is extremely ignorant. Not only are many people in this country who are in poverty in work, but the Tories are pushing through policies which mean over the course of the next few years income inequality is going to become worse.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-39291999

[KingPin]

3 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

If you murder someone you also go to Jail, does that mean it's wrong not to be able to go around murdering people?

This is ridiculous, of course it wrong to kill somebody.

3 minutes ago, arcade fireman said:

There is choice. It's called a democracy. It's called society. If you live in any society, you agree to abide by the rules set out.

If society doesn't want to pay taxes and doesn't want to have public services in turn, then it can vote for no taxes at the ballot box. Surprisingly there are almost no countries which operate this regime, save for extremely oil rich countries or small dependencies. What does that tell you? 

Ok so because 50.1% of the country decides to do xyz against the wishes of the other 40.9% then that it's ok? Beware the tyranny of mob rule is something that should always be kept in mind.

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Yep, it disregards oh-so-perfect-me-me-me because there's more than oh-so-perfect-me-me-me in the world.

Not everyone is blessed with "individual liberty and personal choice", but your answer is fuck them, because it impacts on you.

But it's me that's the outrageous. Yeah, I know.

 

Money is not resources.

Savings are what decides the future distribution of resources, and is not related to the past creation of resources (only to how those resources were valued at the time of creation).

Care to tell me why you believe you have a greater right to resources you've not helped to create on an equitable basis to other humans?

 

If someone wishes to contribute more to society to everyone's benefit, that's generous of them.

Just as your opposite view of people being entitled to live off the back of others by not making the same years of contributions is selfish and greedy.

 

You'll be handing back your state pension, then, I presume?

Or you're talking self-serving twaddle.

 

So you paid for your schooling?

Want to tell me what work you were doing aged 5?

So you stole your schooling. YOU are the outrage, because you use bullshit analogies to justify your want of others to support you.

Under the rule of law in this country everybody has individual liberty and personal choice.

Well if we're being specific we don't have money we have currency, which is a (supposedly) representation of resources. Savings are directly related to the creation of past resources, including the most finite resource that each individual has which is time, and to say otherwise is daft, and because of this of course you have the right to the result of resources that you created and then dilligently protected and saved from the overall resources you created.

Why do you think that people work for societies benefit rather than their own enjoyment? But if you're able to retire early then chances are you've already contributed much more than the average joe will contribute in their whole working lives, how is it then greedy and selfish when you've already done more for society that the average person.

If I'm in a position of dieing or taking state pension I will take it, but I would prefer not too. But I highly doubt the nonsense ponzi scheme that is state pensions will even still be going by the time I choose to stop working (If I ever choose to stop working).

My parents payed for my schooling so no I didn't steal my schooling.

[Gnomicide]

3 minutes ago, KingPin said:

My parents payed for my schooling so no I didn't steal my schooling.

It's all becoming clear now.

[KingPin]

5 minutes ago, Gnomicide said:

It's all becoming clear now.

It's better than going to the shit schools in Rochdale and my Parents sacrificed a huge ammount to send me to private schooling.

[Jay936]

11 hours ago, babyblade41 said:

think this quote says it all " if you are not a socialist at 25 you have no heart, if you are not a conservative at 35 you have no brain..( might need a little tweaking !!but it says everything about me... I was once wanting a fair and spread the wealth system..you soon realise that ethos goes nowhere 

 

 

Turned into a selfish old bag then.

[Lad]

2 minutes ago, Jay936 said:

Turned into a selfish old bag then.

Like you've turned into a gobshite. It happens.

[arcade fireman]

19 minutes ago, KingPin said:

This is ridiculous, of course it wrong to kill somebody.

Ok so because 50.1% of the country decides to do xyz against the wishes of the other 40.9% then that it's ok? Beware the tyranny of mob rule is something that should always be kept in mind.

 This is exactly how society works. We are leaving the EU because less than 52% of those who voted (and about 37% of the electorate) decided to. I think it's a terrible idea and the whole country will become poorer because of it, but hey ho that's democracy. Do you whinge like this whenever the Tories win an election?

It isn't "tyranny". Again this is the classic language you see from saddos who read a bit of Ayn Rand and think they have a clue. It's consensual. I can guarantee you if you put it to the public whether to abolish taxes and public services, far more than 50.1% would vote against. At least 80% would vote against.

I went to private school too. I had a good education. The type of stuff you're coming out with isn't befitting of someone with a good education.

[KingPin]

1 minute ago, arcade fireman said:

 This is exactly how society works. We are leaving the EU because less than 52% of those who voted (and about 37% of the electorate) decided to. I think it's a terrible idea and the whole country will become poorer because of it, but hey ho that's democracy. Do you whinge like this whenever the Tories win an election?

It isn't "tyranny". Again this is the classic language you see from saddos who read a bit of Ayn Rand and think they have a clue. It's consensual. I can guarantee you if you put it to the public whether to abolish taxes and public services, far more than 50.1% would vote against. At least 80% would vote against.

I went to private school too. I had a good education. The type of stuff you're coming out with isn't befitting of someone with a good education.

I didn't want the Tories to win, they're bankrupt of ideas (as shown yesterday with the shit May came out with) and they (or at least the front benchers) don't stand for anything.

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

32 minutes ago, KingPin said:

This is ridiculous, of course it wrong to kill somebody.

Ok so because 50.1% of the country decides to do xyz against the wishes of the other 40.9% then that it's ok? Beware the tyranny of mob rule is something that should always be kept in mind.

Under the rule of law in this country everybody has individual liberty and personal choice.

Well if we're being specific we don't have money we have currency, which is a (supposedly) representation of resources. Savings are directly related to the creation of past resources, including the most finite resource that each individual has which is time, and to say otherwise is daft, and because of this of course you have the right to the result of resources that you created and then dilligently protected and saved from the overall resources you created.

Why do you think that people work for societies benefit rather than their own enjoyment? But if you're able to retire early then chances are you've already contributed much more than the average joe will contribute in their whole working lives, how is it then greedy and selfish when you've already done more for society that the average person.

If I'm in a position of dieing or taking state pension I will take it, but I would prefer not too. But I highly doubt the nonsense ponzi scheme that is state pensions will even still be going by the time I choose to stop working (If I ever choose to stop working).

My parents payed for my schooling so no I didn't steal my schooling.

Maths not your strongpoint then?

[KingPin]

5 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

Maths not your strongpoint then?

A mistake  How do you edit on this forum? 

EDIT: For some reason on that post there's no edit button 

Edited July 11, 2017 by KingPin

[Rose-Colored Boy]

9 hours ago, DeanoL said:

Interesting. So even by that logic we could raise it from where it is now and it would be productive.

Absolutely, and it's crazy that we don't. This government actively chose to replace the compassionate and fair DLA with the obscene PIP system because 'difficult decisions must be made' whilst simultaneously reducing the top tax rate to well below the most productive level. The whole thing is so fucked up. 

Edited July 11, 2017 by Zac Quinn

[arcade fireman]

16 minutes ago, KingPin said:

I didn't want the Tories to win, they're bankrupt of ideas (as shown yesterday with the shit May came out with) and they (or at least the front benchers) don't stand for anything.

Who did you want to win?

[Lad]

Plenty for the neutral on this thread.Theres a weeping accountant and some beaut with a nonce username want to ban people they don't agree with .And now an Eton v.Harrow straightner about  who is the loveliest. ((((((You're both lovely)))).

[KingPin]

Just now, arcade fireman said:

Who did you want to win?

I wanted a hung parliament with no easy route to a coalition, as all the parties are currently filled with cancer and none of them deserve to suceed, so ideally compared to our current situation ~10 less seats for the Tories with these seats split roughly 4 seats for UKIP, 4 for Lib dems and 3 for Greens, so for either party Sinn Fein would have to get involved.

So what we got was almost pretty good, but unfortunately it's left May in charge of the Tories, and I'm not sure the Tories have the stomach to kick the bitch out of the party, and even if they did they'd probably just elect somebody else just as useless.