Women only venue

[Mr.Tease]

1 hour ago, The_Amazing_Oblong said:

So all the responses are - the video is male bullshit - without anyone actually watching the video. Lol

 

Edit - I have nothing to deal with as it doesn't really effect me. It just makes me a little sad that Glastonbury is promoting such a sexist venue. I would feel exactly the same if it was a male only tent.

 

If you get this sad and outraged about women having a small club to themselves at a festival, imagine how sad and outraged you'd feel if you actually properly contemplated all the violence, rape, domestic abuse, genital mutilations, killings, pay and job discrimination, sexual  harassment, exploitation, intimidation, and verbal abuse many women have and do suffer. But yes, continue to cry about the club you're not allowed in. 

[KryziF]

1 hour ago, The_Amazing_Oblong said:

So all the responses are - the video is male bullshit - without anyone actually watching the video. Lol

 

Edit - I have nothing to deal with as it doesn't really effect me. It just makes me a little sad that Glastonbury is promoting such a sexist venue. I would feel exactly the same if it was a male only tent.

 

Oblong do you agree that there is a gender gap in that women are paid less, have less power and are more likely to face sexual harassment?

[Tigerdragon]

49 minutes ago, The_Amazing_Oblong said:

I have never said these gig goers are sexist I have said the venue itself is sexist. The definition of sexist is discrimination based on gender. The definition for discrimination is making a distinction based on a group a person belongs to (i.e. Male). There is no denying that this is a sexist venue.

I've not checked back in my posts but I can be 100% positive that I have never said I agree with anybody having to be a victim of crime at a social event or anywhere else for that matter.

Edit: If anyone does actually watch the video I wanted to say I don't share his views on therapy.

The rest of the world is the white man's safe space. It is a place that discriminates pro-you (I am assuming you are male). It is a world where white men, relatively speaking, can feel unthreatened in a way unimaginable to other identity groups. 

A white, western male's genitals and/or skin colour and/or religion directly cause a low instance of suffering sexual assault, rape, murder, institutional disadvantage, low wages, policy brutality. The first two of those have been proven with stories in this thread about this festival. 

Whats more, is that white men are institutionally protected. There is, for example, still no human right that directly provides bodily integrity. Rape has been left almost unprosecutable. Every human safeguard has been designed by, and for (even unintentionally) white, western, men.

Yes, if everything else was even, a safe space would be sexist. But the world is not even, nor a meritocracy. Without these safe spaces, only one type of identity is really secure, or at least is secure in a way no-one else is. 

So, you have a choice, with your dictionary definitions.
 

1) Discriminate against those insulated from harm, and that cause harm, through affirmative action designed to help, empower, give a voice to a disadvantaged group. If you dislike this, I refer you to the discussions of why it would be arrogant to demand your presence in ALL these discussions and spaces that have been articulated throughout this thread.

2) Demand that there are no anti-male spaces or instances, and therefore reaffirm your privilege as it already exists. And that, my friend, is the very definition of complicity in continuing social evil.
 

[musky]

3 hours ago, KryziF said:

I got about two thirds of the way through before I needed to walk away so I didn't start yelling at my computer. I was going to type a long reply about what was wrong and then decided that it was much better to just ignore and distract myself doing something positive and Glasto related (I thoroughly recommend listening to 10 minutes of brave sir robin's playlist as opposed to that video) rather than arguing with people who just don't get it. 

 

Exactly that! "Just get the therapy you need" was a doozy!

[Winslow Leach]

1 hour ago, Bradders said:

Love the "dictionary definition" argument. Very strong.

How can I be racist, Muslims aren't even a race!

It's also the exact attitude the people using it are usually accusing other people of having: "I am so unwilling to consider nuance and context that we must turn to the all knowing dictionary to banish them forever."

It's the safest space of all.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Winslow Leach

[Purple aki squat]

I hope this isn't the Radio 1 70's DJ tent.

[The_Amazing_Oblong]

3 hours ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

 

Edited June 9, 2016 by The_Amazing_Oblong

[The_Amazing_Oblong]

1 hour ago, Tigerdragon said:

The rest of the world is the white man's safe space. It is a place that discriminates pro-you (I am assuming you are male). It is a world where white men, relatively speaking, can feel unthreatened in a way unimaginable to other identity groups. 

A white, western male's genitals and/or skin colour and/or religion directly cause a low instance of suffering sexual assault, rape, murder, institutional disadvantage, low wages, policy brutality. The first two of those have been proven with stories in this thread about this festival. 

Whats more, is that white men are institutionally protected. There is, for example, still no human right that directly provides bodily integrity. Rape has been left almost unprosecutable. Every human safeguard has been designed by, and for (even unintentionally) white, western, men.

Yes, if everything else was even, a safe space would be sexist. But the world is not even, nor a meritocracy. Without these safe spaces, only one type of identity is really secure, or at least is secure in a way no-one else is. 

So, you have a choice, with your dictionary definitions.
 

1) Discriminate against those insulated from harm, and that cause harm, through affirmative action designed to help, empower, give a voice to a disadvantaged group. If you dislike this, I refer you to the discussions of why it would be arrogant to demand your presence in ALL these discussions and spaces that have been articulated throughout this thread.

2) Demand that there are no anti-male spaces or instances, and therefore reaffirm your privilege as it already exists. And that, my friend, is the very definition of complicity in continuing social evil.
 

I agree that a white man in this country holds the mos priveleged position and started the thread by saying I am an egalitarian.

I don't agree with fighting sexism with sexism or racism with racism.

Pretty sure there is a word specifically for presenting 2 choices and suggesting there are no other options available.

[CaledonianGonzo]

 

15 minutes ago, The_Amazing_Oblong said:

Pretty sure there is a word specifically for presenting 2 choices and suggesting there are no other options available.

Yet that's exactly what you're doing by referring to the dictionary to boil this down into a false binary.

[The_Amazing_Oblong]

2 hours ago, KryziF said:

Oblong do you agree that there is a gender gap in that women are paid less, have less power and are more likely to face sexual harassment?

I agree on all 3 points (although the figures shouted about the pay gap have been proved to be disingenuous*)

*Original study usually quoted on were based on pay differences between the sexes of graduates with the same degree a year or so after graduation regardless of current occupation. Further studies show that when their current professions are taken into account then the pay gap, although it still exists, is small enough to be considered negligible. (From what I have read and watched)

Now whether the occupation differences are by choice or by closed doors due to sexism I don't know and would be interested to find out.

Right I'm off now as I'm up to Leeds tomorrow for Neil Young. If the thread is still going I will catch up on Sunday.

[Bradders]

4 minutes ago, The_Amazing_Oblong said:

I agree on all 3 points (although the figures shouted about the pay gap have been proved to be disingenuous*)

*Original study usually quoted on were based on pay differences between the sexes of graduates with the same degree a year or so after graduation regardless of current occupation. Further studies show that when their current professions are taken into account then the pay gap, although it still exists, is small enough to be considered negligible. (From what I have read and watched).

What? No. I don't have figures to hand but I want to make sure nobody believes that.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Bradders

[KryziF]

OK so you agree there is a gender gap and therefore the issues raised by this venue are worth while.

This thread is open to men and women and the sort of place that discussion on those issues could take place equally between men and women.

However it has mostly been men discussing (on both sides) why men aren't allowed. Does this suggest to you why some women would prefer women only opportunities to cover these issues?

[gizmoman]

7 hours ago, 5co77ie said:

The Sisterhood is Glastonbury’s first woman only venue! It is an intersectional, Queer, Trans and Disability inclusive space open to all people who identify as women. Expect intergenerational workshops, talks, music, performance and dance parties to explore and celebrate everything about being a woman in the world today.

Reject the Patriarchy. Join the Sisterhood. Party on. Sisterhood is a labour of love for women, by women. All producers, bar staff, security, performers, workshop hosts are women identified. We are open to all women regardless of race, ethnicity, socioeconomic background, gender identity, sexuality, physical/mental ability.

The producers of The Sisterhood believe that women only spaces are necessary in a world that is still run by and designed to benefit mainly men.

Oppression against women continues in various manifestations around the world today, in different cultural contexts. In the UK, the gender pay gap in the workplace, cuts to domestic violence services and sex worker rights are current talking points that highlight this issue. Sisterhood seeks to provide a secret space for women to connect, network, share their stories, have fun and learn the best way to support each other in our global struggle to end oppression against women and all marginalised people, whilst showcasing the best and boldest female talent in the UK and beyond.

The Sisterhood is a hidden venue within Shangri-La which is working with the theme: Media Hell- Truth and Lies. This concept explores the deceit and distractions of the mainstream media and encourages Shangri-La citizens to question everything and seek out truth, rather than just swallowing what they read in newspapers and watch on the news.

The media often reduces women to passive, sexualised objects without any agency.

The Sisterhood is a revolutionary clubhouse for women have their voices heard on their terms.

The program includes: • Daily Workshops • Live Music, DJs (disco, bass, pop, riotgrrl, punk, funk), Cutting Edge Performance • Daily dance classes • Celebrity guests TBA

Talking Points/Highlights

• DIY power tools workshop with carpenter Rhi Jean

• Workshops on Intersectionality, diversity and inclusion with Camille Barton and Ophelia Bitz

• Intergenerational Feminist Exchange- Crones and Whippersnappers

• The Love In: A forum for black women (SUNDAY 26th) → A space for black women in the arts to connect, network and share experiences about working in predominantly white creative industries.

• Follow us on Twitter for more updates! @Join_Sisterhood

 

 

Priceless! And you people still think this is for real, Ophelia Bitz  Really!

 

[dentalplan]

Makin' one of these yo

 

[philipsteak]

9 hours ago, The_Amazing_Oblong said:

Since this topic came up I've been poking about the internet looking at cases for and against 'safe spaces'. Anyways after considering both sides of the equation I stick by my original conclusion that this is a bad idea and promotes sexism. I found this video that really articulates my thoughts better than I could write them in this thread ;

 

 

I couldn't get past the air quotes. Did I miss anything?

[HalfAnIdiot]

38 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

Priceless! And you people still think this is for real, Ophelia Bitz  Really!

 

http://theatrebristol.net/ophelia-bitz-artw*nk

 

It'real alright. Seems to be working too :-)

[nats2086]

13 minutes ago, philipsteak said:

 

I couldn't get past the air quotes. Did I miss anything?

Well, I watched the whole thing just because I like to hear all different points of view, and I guess a quick summary is that he's telling women they should just suck it up, because life is hard and that we shouldn't be telling white men they aren't worthy of protection too. And yeah, quite a few air quotes. 

[gizmoman]

9 minutes ago, HalfAnIdiot said:

http://theatrebristol.net/ophelia-bitz-artw*nk

 

It'real alright. Seems to be working too :-)

I knew I should have googled first! I laughed at the name, not sure some of the girls in this thread who have been groped at Glasto would feel.

[Kill_Crazy]

I can't see why any man would have a problem with this at Glastonbury or anywhere else. If you're that insecure that you feel this is sexist towards men or discriminates against men then you're living in a vacuum.

 Whilst, I'm sure, that men do get discriminated against (even sexual discrimination) the number/ severity of the discrimination is no where close to that which women face in a lot of aspects of their lives.

 One thing I would like to see is a support register which both men and women can sign to show support. 

[philipsteak]

15 minutes ago, nats2086 said:

Well, I watched the whole thing just because I like to hear all different points of view, and I guess a quick summary is that he's telling women they should just suck it up, because life is hard and that we shouldn't be telling white men they aren't worthy of protection too. And yeah, quite a few air quotes. 

I think we all need a safe space away from people who think air quotes help reinforce whatever point you are trying to make and have any place in decent society.

Thanks for taking the hit. 

[Tigerdragon]

2 hours ago, The_Amazing_Oblong said:

I agree that a white man in this country holds the mos priveleged position and started the thread by saying I am an egalitarian.

I don't agree with fighting sexism with sexism or racism with racism.

Pretty sure there is a word specifically for presenting 2 choices and suggesting there are no other options available.

There is also a word for taking a very small part of someone's argument, instead of the entirety, and then just restating your own view point.

[musky]

1 hour ago, nats2086 said:

Well, I watched the whole thing just because I like to hear all different points of view, and I guess a quick summary is that he's telling women they should just suck it up, because life is hard and that we shouldn't be telling white men they aren't worthy of protection too. And yeah, quite a few air quotes. 

I just loved his opening argument that safe spaces were pointless because nowhere is safe.

You can just imagine someone being chased down a street by an angry mob, hammering on doors looking for sanctuary, when this guy suddenly opens his door...

[CaledonianGonzo]

....with his dictionary in his hand....

[RichardWaller]

8 hours ago, nats2086 said:

Well, I watched the whole thing just because I like to hear all different points of view, and I guess a quick summary is that he's telling women they should just suck it up, because life is hard and that we shouldn't be telling white men they aren't worthy of protection too. And yeah, quite a few air quotes. 

Yeah... That's the problem isn't it, men have been deciding what women want, need and deserve forever. Course some aren't going to take kindly to women making their own decisions.

[stuartbert two hats]

5 hours ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

....with his dictionary in his hand....

Never heard it called that before!

Edited June 10, 2016 by stuartbert two hats