Would a ballot be a fairer system?

[Ommadawn]

23 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

That wouldn't really solve the issue that the OP is suggesting exists in the first place, and what a ballot would address - an overall fairer system. Putting tickets on sale at 3am would further reward the more organised and the hardcore regulars and make it harder for the first timer and less organised, which is totally the opposite to what Glastonbury themselves would want to do.

So are first timers incapable of getting up for 3.00am then?

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

4 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

So are first timers incapable of getting up for 3.00am then?

Of course not, but would you say they are more or less likely to get up at 3am, compared to the seasoned Glastonbury veteran?

I guarantee if you put a poll up on this site asking regulars (people have been at least three times+) if they would favour the sale moving to 3am, you'd get an almost unanimous yes, because the majority would perceive it as an even better chance to get themselves a ticket.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Deaf Nobby Burton

[MetaKate]

30 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

Of course not, but would you say they are more or less likely to get up at 3am, compared to the seasoned Glastonbury veteran?

I guarantee if you put a poll up on this site asking regulars (people have been at least three times+) if they would favour the sale moving to 3am, you'd get an almost unanimous yes, because the majority would perceive it as an even better chance to get themselves a ticket.

My first time was last year and I'm in canada so had to get up at 5am. My friend on the other end of Canada was up at 2am. We really wanted to go so we made it work. I don't think moving the sale would affect people who truly want to go. I'd be willing to make allowances to try at literally any hour of any day. 

[MilkyJoe]

A ballot would suck arse. What about the people that go in a group and half of them don't get tickets? Or a couple where only one of them is successful?

For the record, I've failed to get through for the last 4 years despite being very organised in the main sales with multiple devices across multiple ip's. I missed out in 13 and 14 and only went last year because another efester managed to get me a ticket in the resale. I also got a ticket in 2010 with a dial up internet connection from a boat in the middle of the North Sea.

I haven't got a ticket this year either but the current system is about as fair as it can be. 

[russycarps]

6 minutes ago, MilkyJoe said:

A ballot would suck arse.

It would indeed, but in terms of fairness, it doesnt get any fairer than a ballot (so long as you can be certain people can only enter once - this is where it falls down for me).

Obviously, I'd hate a ballot. Because the current system gives me a slight advantage over other people.

 

 

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

33 minutes ago, MetaKate said:

My first time was last year and I'm in canada so had to get up at 5am. My friend on the other end of Canada was up at 2am. We really wanted to go so we made it work. I don't think moving the sale would affect people who truly want to go. I'd be willing to make allowances to try at literally any hour of any day. 

Of course it wouldn't, but that's not the question, would it make it fairer?

[MetaKate]

39 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

Of course it wouldn't, but that's not the question, would it make it fairer?

I don't think it would. There's no magical universal time that would make the sale more or less fair. Certain times are going to be easier/more difficult for different types of people...but that doesn't quite affect the fairness of the sale. 

Is it inconvenient to wake up at 5am for tickets? Yes. Is it unfair? No

Edited April 26, 2017 by MetaKate

[DeanoL]

2 hours ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

Glamping options with tickets are a lot more expensive than £1000, you're looking at the £3-£4K bracket at least, so there would still be an advantage to those who could afford to spend £1000 on gettting a ticket.

There tend to be spare corporate comps going around for circa £700-£1000 in Mid-May if you look hard enough.

 

1 hour ago, MilkyJoe said:

A ballot would suck arse. What about the people that go in a group and half of them don't get tickets? Or a couple where only one of them is successful?

You register for the ballot in groups, which I've explained twice already...

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

5 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

There tend to be spare corporate comps going around for circa £700-£1000 in Mid-May if you look hard enough.

I think the option to potentially spend £1000 in October to secure a ticket vs waiting until a month before the festival to maybe or maybe not buy a corporate ticket that may or may not exist would be infinitely more attractive to the average punter. Especially when if their multiple entries fail and they have spent £0 they can go down your corporate comp route anyway.

[russycarps]

30 minutes ago, Scruffylovemonster said:

IMO It would increase the number of casuals there. The ones you always complain about. the gig-chatters, the picnic blanket/chair brigade.The us and them attitude etc. 

I dunno, I reckon most of the bores at glastonbury are probably the people who are meticulous planners.

A few more care free hedonistic casuals would be a breath of fresh air.

[FuzzyDunlop]

3 minutes ago, russycarps said:

I dunno, I reckon most of the bores at glastonbury are probably the people who are meticulous planners.

A few more care free hedonistic casuals would be a breath of fresh air.

I do a load of planning - then get off my face and it all goes to shit.

[The Nal]

13 minutes ago, russycarps said:

I dunno, I reckon most of the bores at glastonbury are probably the people who are meticulous planners.

A few more care free hedonistic casuals would be a breath of fresh air.

Agree with that.

The bores I've seen over the last few years have all been the chair brigade who camp offsite in whatever options are outside of Gate B. The queues after the Pyramid headliners to get off site last year were horrific. All the way from Gate B back to where the Big Ground path goes right towards Williams Green area. Which is where I was going. 

There were so many people there I thought there was some sort of incident. There wasn't. Just thousands and thousands of c**ts with chairs and blankets over their shoulders trying to leave as quickly as possible while tutting at the length of the queue. Thats they were creating themselves.  

Edited April 26, 2017 by The Nal

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

3 minutes ago, The Nal said:

Agree with that.

The bores I've seen over the last few years have all been the chair brigade who camp offsite in whatever options are outside of Gate B. The queues after the Pyramid headliners to get off site last year were horrific. All the way from Gate B back to where the Big Ground path goes right towards Williams Green area. Which is where I was going. 

There were so many people there I thought there was some sort of incident. There wasn't. Just thousands and thousands of c**ts with chairs and blankets over their shoulders trying to leave as quickly as possible while tutting at the length of the queue. Thats they were creating themselves.  

Would a lot of those not be locals who get an allocation of tickets regardless?

[The_Amazing_Oblong]

Glastonbury want to sell all the tickets and they want to stop touts from selling tickets on. Seetickets are charged with the selling and manage to sell all the tickets to registered punters within an hour. This sells all the tickets and stops touts selling tickets on. 

What the fuck has fair got to do with it ? What possible incentive does the festival or seetickets have to move from what can only be perceived by them as a perfect system to an uknown system in order to be more fair ?

WE would like the system to be as fair as possible but I fail to see why Glastonbury or Seetickets should care less how fair it is as long as all the tickets get sold to genuine punters, which they do under the current system.

What would be the advantage to the festival or ticket seller in implementing a fairer system ?

 

 

[DeanoL]

1 minute ago, The_Amazing_Oblong said:

What would be the advantage to the festival or ticket seller in implementing a fairer system ?

What's the advantage to the festival of stopping touting? What's the advantage to the festival of selling tickets at below market value? (They're likely still easily sell out at £300)

They clearly have some interest in the sales beyond just shifting all the tickets.

[The Nal]

15 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

Would a lot of those not be locals who get an allocation of tickets regardless?

Possibly but theres defo a big mix. See the same going into the camper fields and that new posh camping place at Gate C too. Thousands of people just plop a chair and a blanket down at the Pyramid and leave when the main act finishes. 

The Stones was the best/worst example I saw. A group beside where we ended up standing - well in front of the mixing desk - insisting on sitting down up to two minutes before the band came on and were very put out by the fact people were standing around them. Lots of under their breath "this is ridiculous" sort of chatter. 

When they eventually stood up after the lights had dropped and it was clearly show time, the women beside me aggressively slammed the newspaper she had been reading down on her chair before folding it up and glared at the people who had gathered around her and muttered something along the lines of "come on (husbands name), I don't want to be around these people" while walking off and occasionally glancing back in disgust 

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

19 minutes ago, The Nal said:

Possibly but theres defo a big mix. See the same going into the camper fields and that new posh camping place at Gate C too. Thousands of people just plop a chair and a blanket down at the Pyramid and leave when the main act finishes. 

The Stones was the best/worst example I saw. A group beside where we ended up standing - well in front of the mixing desk - insisting on sitting down up to two minutes before the band came on and were very put out by the fact people were standing around them. Lots of under their breath "this is ridiculous" sort of chatter. 

When they eventually stood up after the lights had dropped and it was clearly show time, the women beside me aggressively slammed the newspaper she had been reading down on her chair before folding it up and glared at the people who had gathered around her and muttered something along the lines of "come on (husbands name), I don't want to be around these people" while walking off and occasionally glancing back in disgust 

I only say that because a large amount of the picnic blanket and chair brigade are local/Sunday ticket holders, and unless the festival moves to the moon they will exist regardless of the way tickets are sold.

I definitely share your hatred of those types, in 2015 on Saturday afternoon I stood on the corner of some woman's picnic blanket at the back of the pyramid during George Ezra, she actually had a go at me, I turned round and told her what a fucking retarded place it was to put a picnic blanket on the main stage at the biggest festival in the world and she needed to get a grip.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Deaf Nobby Burton

[russycarps]

1 hour ago, The_Amazing_Oblong said:

Glastonbury want to sell all the tickets and they want to stop touts from selling tickets on. Seetickets are charged with the selling and manage to sell all the tickets to registered punters within an hour. This sells all the tickets and stops touts selling tickets on. 

What the fuck has fair got to do with it ? What possible incentive does the festival or seetickets have to move from what can only be perceived by them as a perfect system to an uknown system in order to be more fair ?

WE would like the system to be as fair as possible but I fail to see why Glastonbury or Seetickets should care less how fair it is as long as all the tickets get sold to genuine punters, which they do under the current system.

What would be the advantage to the festival or ticket seller in implementing a fairer system ?

 

 

I dont think anyone actually thinks a new system will be implemented. Or wants one to be implemented. But the question in the OP was could the system be fairer. And the answer must be yes.

 

 

[Gregcharlie]

6 hours ago, MilkyJoe said:

I also got a ticket in 2010 with a dial up internet connection from a boat in the middle of the North Sea.

I miss the 2010 days and the 12 hours it took to sellout. Persistance was rewarded.

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

4 hours ago, russycarps said:

I dunno, I reckon most of the bores at glastonbury are probably the people who are meticulous planners.

Presumably you're one of these people though, if you favour the current system because it gives you an advantage?

[The Nal]

10 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

Presumably you're one of these people though, if you favour the current system because it gives you an advantage?

Nothing meticulous about going to a website with 1 tab open and hitting F5 repeatedly. Thats all most people do. 

3 hours ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

I turned round and told her what a fucking retarded place it was to put a picnic blanket on the main stage at the biggest festival in the world and she needed to get a grip.

You should've followed her out to carpark and hit her with this

[fur_q]

15 hours ago, DeanoL said:

As I said earlier, you charge up front for the ticket when entering the ballot, refund as soon as it's drawn if you don't win in the ballot.

Sure, rich people could enter multiple times, but that'd be risking paying £500-£1000 for a ticket and if you're willing to pay that much there are already options available to you.

But presumably any payment made to enter the ballot would be a returnable deposit so to enter, say  20 times at £50, would not cost £1000 you would only need that money available for a period  of time. 

[DeanoL]

13 minutes ago, The Nal said:

Nothing meticulous about going to a website with 1 tab open and hitting F5 repeatedly. Thats all most people do. 

That's an interesting assumption and while it might well be correct, I'd guess otherwise. I bet a hell of a lot of people go to the website then sit there quietly waiting twenty seconds for the auto-refresh. The site never tells you that your odds are better if you manually refresh. And while that might be obvious to some, I'm not sure it is to everyone. And of course we never hear from these people because they're not the sort that use internet forums either.

And I'd wager plenty more click the little refresh button rather than press F5.

I'd love to know the stats on this, but I do think it's potentially another of those "eFestivals tunnel vision" issues where everyone assumes everyone else approaches things in the same way, just because that's what everyone on here does.

Just ask yourself if you don't normally buy tickets for high profile events, and don't have an understanding of how internet ticketing online, if you'd actually figure out the "F5 as much as possible" thing. I reckon we're at least doubling our chances by so much as knowing to do that.

[The Nal]

6 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

I'd love to know the stats on this

As would I yeah. Sitting there waiting 20 seconds for the page to refresh.

Edited April 26, 2017 by The Nal

[somecoolusername]

8 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

That's an interesting assumption and while it might well be correct, I'd guess otherwise. I bet a hell of a lot of people go to the website then sit there quietly waiting twenty seconds for the auto-refresh. The site never tells you that your odds are better if you manually refresh. And while that might be obvious to some, I'm not sure it is to everyone. And of course we never hear from these people because they're not the sort that use internet forums either.

And I'd wager plenty more click the little refresh button rather than press F5.

I'd love to know the stats on this, but I do think it's potentially another of those "eFestivals tunnel vision" issues where everyone assumes everyone else approaches things in the same way, just because that's what everyone on here does.

Just ask yourself if you don't normally buy tickets for high profile events, and don't have an understanding of how internet ticketing online, if you'd actually figure out the "F5 as much as possible" thing. I reckon we're at least doubling our chances by so much as knowing to do that.

Even a cursory glance at Twitter on ticket day would tell you that hitting F5 is very much public knowledge.

I assume you don't have an answer to my question I asked twice yesterday about how the festival could legally take ticket money from thousands of people until it is returned/they get a ticket?