They should give Fabric a stage at Glastonbury

[chris_top_her]

Noticed Fabric are doing a lot of events around the UK lately. Give them the blues stage or something for a night or the weekend it would be amazing !

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, chris_top_her said:

Noticed Fabric are doing a lot of events around the UK lately. Give them the blues stage or something for a night or the weekend it would be amazing !

why not give them a stage you care asbout rather than one you don't, so they don't fuck over a stage that's not what they do...?

[FuzzyDunlop]

I can see the Shangri La doing something.

Save our Culture etc. 

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, FuzzyDunlop said:

I can see the Shangri La doing something.

Save our Culture etc. 

London-centric organisation does something that's London-centric sounds more reasonable.

[Untz]

24 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

London-centric organisation does something that's London-centric sounds more reasonable.

Worrying about the closure of clubs is London-centric?

Yes, Fabric is in London. It was also a large, well run, internationally renowned club that was fairly keen to co-operate with authorities. Plenty of non-London, non-Fabric going people are concerned about its closure and if Fabric was in another city, I'm sure the response would have been the same.

And I don't think Fabric should have a stage for the weekend. Involved in running an appropriate stage for the night though, sure.

[Mezhyp1]

5 minutes ago, Untz said:

Worrying about the closure of clubs is London-centric?

Yes, Fabric is in London. It was also a large, well run, internationally renowned club that was fairly keen to co-operate with authorities. Plenty of non-London, non-Fabric going people are concerned about its closure and if Fabric was in another city, I'm sure the response would have been the same.

And I don't think Fabric should have a stage for the weekend. Involved in running an appropriate stage for the night though, sure.

This is something I would definitely get behind, they aren't going to command their own stage for the full weekend, but give them a night on Genosys or something like that, and it would go down a storm

[CaledonianGonzo]

16 minutes ago, Untz said:

Worrying about the closure of clubs is London-centric?

Yes, Fabric is in London. It was also a large, well run, internationally renowned club that was fairly keen to co-operate with authorities. Plenty of non-London, non-Fabric going people are concerned about its closure and if Fabric was in another city, I'm sure the response would have been the same.

I take your point, but I'm not sure that the closure of The Arches in Glasgow a couple of years back in very similar circumstances garnered anywhere near as much attention / condemnation.

[eFestivals]

7 minutes ago, Untz said:

Worrying about the closure of clubs is London-centric?

Yes, Fabric is in London. It was also a large, well run, internationally renowned club that was fairly keen to co-operate with authorities. Plenty of non-London, non-Fabric going people are concerned about its closure and if Fabric was in another city, I'm sure the response would have been the same.

And I don't think Fabric should have a stage for the weekend. Involved in running an appropriate stage for the night though, sure.

Yes, Fabric is in London.

Clubs come and go all the time. Fabric is not the first London club to be closed down for similar reason - i used to go to Club UK, for those who remember that. That closure was wrongly regarded as "they're being nasty to our culture, all clubs will be shut" too.

So Club UK gets to show that Fabric being closed down for specific reasons doesn't get to mean anything specific for the wider club scene.

I'm personally far more worried about how similar attitudes could impact onto festivals. Luckily - if anything to do with luck is the right word - the biggest number of festival drug-related deaths this year was at T in the Park, which has come under the control of Melvin Benn this year, and i reckon his position as Mr Establishment nowadays gives some protection, at least until it happens again. And if T gets a free pass that makes it hard for action against Boomtown, which is the festival I feel is the most likely to come under this sort of scrutiny and action.

I'm certainly not supportive of these sorts of actions against clubs, festivals, or anything else, but at the same time I can recognise the dilemma the authorities might have if particular places have a history of deaths surrounding them. For all the time people are dying at places that are meant to be about fun they're always going to feel that one of them needs to be shut down now and then, to ensure the pressure is kept up on the places that remain open to act against illegal activities.

(the arguments about what should be illegal and what shouldn't is something else. For all the while drugs are illegal, action against that illegality will happen)

[russycarps]

The problem with fabric is it's been shit for 15 years

 

[big__phil]

2 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

I take your point, but I'm not sure that the closure of The Arches in Glasgow a couple of years back in very similar circumstances garnered anywhere near as much attention / condemnation.

It got a decent amount of national coverage, didn't it? Fabric would always get more, because it's Fabric, but nightclub closures around the country is a pretty big story these days, and I've read plenty of stories about the amount of closures around the country.

 

1 minute ago, russycarps said:

The problem with fabric is it's been shit for 15 years

 

Even if you believe that to be the case, they at least provide a platform for artists new and old, which then helps create new scenes and trends, which is pretty important.

[russycarps]

2 minutes ago, big__phil said:

It got a decent amount of national coverage, didn't it? Fabric would always get more, because it's Fabric, but nightclub closures around the country is a pretty big story these days, and I've read plenty of stories about the amount of closures around the country.

 

Even if you believe that to be the case, they at least provide a platform for artists new and old, which then helps create new scenes and trends, which is pretty important.

It was mainly the crowd. Essex boys and tourists.

But anyway, it's nothing to do with drugs, and everything to do with prime london real estate.

 

[big__phil]

Just now, russycarps said:

It was mainly the crowd. Essex boys and tourists.

But anyway, it's nothing to do with drugs, and everything to do with prime london real estate.

 

OK, you could be right (I haven't actually been in for some years). But like our beloved Glastonbury, when it becomes very popular you get a different type of punter. Just the way it is when outsider culture slips in to the mainstream.

[chris_top_her]

13 minutes ago, russycarps said:

The problem with fabric is it's been shit for 15 years

 

The line ups they have been making since the closure look pretty special though...

[waterfalls212434]

gig venues have been closing all over the country, fabric only made such a big splash because of where it was I reckon. Much as im opposed to the closures in general at least people in London have plenty of other options unlike most citys or towns when the decent venues close their doors. 

[Untz]

9 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

I take your point, but I'm not sure that the closure of The Arches in Glasgow a couple of years back in very similar circumstances garnered anywhere near as much attention / condemnation.

I was thinking about The Arches when I wrote my post, but I'm not sure if it had quite the same status as Fabric? Maybe I am being a London-centric arse, but I had never heard of it before it closed whereas I know of clubs in other cities (and, indeed, other countries). There are plenty of clubs that could close, and have closed, in London without most people caring too.

14 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Clubs come and go all the time. Fabric is not the first London club to be closed down for similar reason - i used to go to Club UK, for those who remember that. That closure was wrongly regarded as "they're being nasty to our culture, all clubs will be shut" too.

So Club UK gets to show that Fabric being closed down for specific reasons doesn't get to mean anything specific for the wider club scene.

I'm personally far more worried about how similar attitudes could impact onto festivals.

You're right. Clubs have been closing for similar reasons for as long as clubs have been open. It will likely always happen. Clubs will, most probably, go on unaffected. I do think the whole response is a tad overblown, I am on several mailing lists for clubs and club nights and you would think the world was ending, but I also don't see how latching onto the closure of Fabric as a focal point for those worried about night life makes it London-centric (which was what I was arguing against, not that it's people getting upset over nothing).

Just because clubs have always closed without large scale damage to the scene doesn't it mean that will always be the case, nor does it mean we have to accept clubs closing.

I know even less about the regulation and policing of festivals than I do about city based clubs so I can't comment on that, but surely resolving (some of) the problems with clubs will help to secure festivals futures too?

[CaledonianGonzo]

Just now, Untz said:

I was thinking about The Arches when I wrote my post, but I'm not sure if it had quite the same status as Fabric? Maybe I am being a London-centric arse, but I had never heard of it before it closed whereas I know of clubs in other cities (and, indeed, other countries). There are plenty of clubs that could close, and have closed, in London without most people caring too.

Yeah, it was one of the good ones.  Not just as a nightclub, but because the club element funded its use as a theatre and performing arts space during the day as well.  It also had one of the most adventurous gig line ups in the city, and even had its own theatre company.

[eFestivals]

11 minutes ago, Untz said:

I also don't see how latching onto the closure of Fabric as a focal point for those worried about night life makes it London-centric

Because it's only when London clubs are affected that it becomes a big thing.

But anyway, my London centric thing was meant to be a bit tongue in cheek, a follow-on from the starting-post bad-idea that Fabric should fuck-over and change The Blues - something that's actually far more of current underground culture than very-mainstream Fabric.

If a London-based thing such as Shangri-La wants to take on a London thing for itself I've no problem with it. London-things shouldn't take over the rest of the country tho - as Fabric taking over The Blues would be. Other things have just as much right to exist as any London-thing.

 

11 minutes ago, Untz said:

I know even less about the regulation and policing of festivals than I do about city based clubs so I can't comment on that, but surely resolving (some of) the problems with clubs will help to secure festivals futures too?

resolving the problems of illegal drugs in clubs and festivals will see clubs and festivals lose their current popularity and cause at least some of them to close anyway.

After all, it's them being a playground for drug takers which is a big part of the attraction with each of them.

Edited October 11, 2016 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

42 minutes ago, big__phil said:

It got a decent amount of national coverage, didn't it? Fabric would always get more, because it's Fabric, but nightclub closures around the country is a pretty big story these days, and I've read plenty of stories about the amount of closures around the country.

You're mixing up two different things there.

Fabric was a successful club with a drugs issue; it's the drugs issue which has forced its closure.

The vast majority of other clubs closing down are very much because of clubs becoming less popular. If no one wants them, they're not going to survive.

Edited October 11, 2016 by eFestivals

[Untz]

4 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

resolving the problems of illegal drugs in clubs and festivals will see clubs and festivals lose their current popularity and cause at least some of them to close anyway.

After all, it's them being a playground for drug takers which is a big part of the attraction with each of them.

Maybe I'm just being naïve, but I'm sure there are other ways to preventing drug deaths than to completely ban drugs.

[stuartbert two hats]

3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

You're mixing up two different things there.

Fabric was a successful club with a drugs issue; it's the drugs issue which has forced its closure.

The vast majority of other clubs closing down are very much because of clubs becoming less popular. If no one wants them, they're not going to survive.

Was it?  Really?

[Drfoxxx]

I only moved to London from the north west just over 2 years ago, fabric wasn't the greatest but it's not the drugs that's an issue. 

From articles I have read they have followed everything that was given to them, even paying for sniffer dogs outside the venue. It sounds like the council are cash strapped and they can sell the land for a nice sum for residential space, how true that is I'm not 100% sure.

You will never stop people taking drugs, I don't understand why we still are in the middle ages with our reaction to drugs. Our first aim should be to make them safe, instead of letting innocent people die from bad batches and then educating people.

Correct me if I am wrong didn't SGP have a testing area last year?

Edited October 11, 2016 by Drfoxxx

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

You're mixing up two different things there.

Fabric was a successful club with a drugs issue; it's the drugs issue which has forced its closure.

The vast majority of other clubs closing down are very much because of clubs becoming less popular. If no one wants them, they're not going to survive.

PS:

If Fabric had taken the very strict measures that would be needed to resolve its drugs issue to the satisfaction of the authorities, the likelihood is that Fabric wouldn't remain viable anyway.

Essentially, it's the fact that Fabric knew that and wouldn't allow such strict measures to kill it that has ended up killing it.

You can of course make the argument that people will take drugs anyway whether Fabric exists or not, and that's true - but the authorities don't have a role in regulating all other places where people might take drugs. The authorities will sometimes act to demonstrate that they do sometimes act to enforce regulation.

[Matt - Ed Banger Records]

I would say that every club I have ever been in has a drug issue if we are taking Fabric as having one, and they definitely have/had one of the most stringent search policies outside of WHP. I have had bouncers ask for a bribe to enter a club without a search on a couple of occasions at MOS, one of these occasions was a week after someone was shot there.

It was a big issue when the Arches closed down, and that was almost more farcical because of the draconian licensing requirements imposed on them prior to closure.

Ultimately clubs should be places where people can be safe, current laws don't allow that to be as safe as it can be, but that's a discussion for another time. In terms of Glastonbury, I reckon a takeover of one of the venues in Shangri-La could certainly work, although given the appeal date they could well be long gone by then anyway.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Matt - Ed Banger Records

[Rubber Soldier]

41 minutes ago, russycarps said:

It was mainly the crowd. Essex boys and tourists.

But anyway, it's nothing to do with drugs, and everything to do with prime london real estate.

 

Correct. It's exactly the same up here.

A few days after they shut The Arches down JD Wetherspoon's (!) had a sign up about opening a hotel with a roof terrace literally a stone's throw from the club. 

That's not a coincidence. 

[Untz]

14 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Was it?  Really?

Almost irrelevant, that was the angle they pursued, and drugs and death can generally provoke a strong negative reaction in people so it will continue to be the one they use.