Things can only get better

[Blisterpack]

10 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

He and other labour MPs clearly did say Israel had the right to commit genocide. Laughable to pretend otherwise. 

He didn't. And I'm not laughing at any of this I can assure you. 

[Physical_graffiti]

50 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

at the risk of getting banned again.... he doesn't support genocide. And I'd be more concerned about the welfare (and wellbeing) of Jewish festival-goers than I would be about how the BBC choose to show flags. 

That's the most insane thing I've ever read on here, basically to accuse the crowd at the most welcoming inclusive party on earth of being antisemitic.

I assume you are referring to the fair assumption that we have that there is likely to be a large amount of support among the festival goers for the Palestinian people not being oppressed. I'm struggling to link that to ticket holders wanting to damage the welfare of Jewish ticket holders, and I think it's pretty disgusting you are.

[Colorblindjames]

34 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

He didn't. And I'm not laughing at any of this I can assure you. 

Yea you believe what you need to believe to get by. 

[Talcroft]

Oh yeh you're right, we should just ensure the Tories get another five years then. 

 

In all seriousness, I am absolutely pro-Palestine, but we cannot make this a single issue election because the alternative isn't radical enough. We need power first. To get power, we have to appeal to people. To appeal to people, we have to be centric. 

Edited May 23, 2024 by Talcroft
accidental misquote

[Blisterpack]

1 minute ago, Physical_graffiti said:

That's the most insane thing I've ever read on here, basically to accuse the crowd at the most welcoming inclusive party on earth of being antisemitic.

I assume you are referring to the fair assumption that we have that there is likely to be a large amount of support among the festival goers for the Palestinian people not being oppressed. I'm struggling to link that to ticket holders wanting to damage the welfare of Jewish ticket holders, and I think it's pretty disgusting you are.

I'm not talking about the intent of the festival-goers.  But I can assure you from personal experience that there will be an impact on the emotional wellbeing of Jews at the festival. It's a sad consequence of what is happening. 

[Skip997]

Just now, Blisterpack said:

I'm not talking about the intent of the festival-goers.  But I can assure you from personal experience that there will be an impact on the emotional wellbeing of Jews at the festival. It's a sad consequence of what is happening. 

Seeing a few flags?

[Colorblindjames]

2 minutes ago, Physical_graffiti said:

That's the most insane thing I've ever read on here, basically to accuse the crowd at the most welcoming inclusive party on earth of being antisemitic.

I assume you are referring to the fair assumption that we have that there is likely to be a large amount of support among the festival goers for the Palestinian people not being oppressed. I'm struggling to link that to ticket holders wanting to damage the welfare of Jewish ticket holders, and I think it's pretty disgusting you are.

This is what the supporters of the Israeli government do. As Alexi said “they lie and they lie and they lie …”.

[uscore]

2 minutes ago, Talcroft said:

Oh yeh you're right, we should just ensure the Tories get another five years then. 

 

In all seriousness, I am absolutely pro-Palestine, but we cannot make this a single issue election because the alternative isn't radical enough. We need power first. To get power, we have to appeal to people. To appeal to people, we have to be centric. 

I feel like I may have been misquoted here.

[Colorblindjames]

2 minutes ago, Talcroft said:

Oh yeh you're right, we should just ensure the Tories get another five years then. 

 

In all seriousness, I am absolutely pro-Palestine, but we cannot make this a single issue election because the alternative isn't radical enough. We need power first. To get power, we have to appeal to people. To appeal to people, we have to be centric. 

I think support for genocide is a pretty big issue. To put it as just another issue along side economic growth and fixing potholes is wrong. 

[Blisterpack]

2 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

Yea you believe what you need to believe to get by. 

Keir Starmer’s statement to the Commons on Israel & Gaza  – The Labour Party

 

He hasn't budged from this. Which bit says Israel has the right to commit genocide?  If you are talking about the Nick Ferrari interview then listen again.  He clearly states that any withdrawal of power and water had to be within the frame of international law, which included it being temporary and with a stated objective - which was the case here as it was part of an attempt to secure a wider humanitarian crossing whilst hitting Hamas specific targets.  It's all there if people wish to look.  Starmer didn't spend years as a Human Rights lawyer to suddenly turn into a fascist. 

[Blisterpack]

4 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

Seeing a few flags?

when you have been through what the Jews have, triggers can be very simple. 

[Blisterpack]

6 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

This is what the supporters of the Israeli government do. As Alexi said “they lie and they lie and they lie …”.

I'm no supporter of this Israeli Government I can assure you. I do support the Israeli nation. 

[Nice hymer]

15 hours ago, Mich1268 said:

They are playing this year? Or is it a d-ream? Just listened to bbc whilst Sunak was trying to give his election speech.  All I heard was that song. Felt great 

Steve Bray is an absolute legend, perfectly timed 👏👏👏

[Blisterpack]

Anyway, VOTE LABOUR!!!!!

[Mich1268]

1 minute ago, Nice hymer said:

Steve Bray is an absolute legend, perfectly timed 👏👏👏

Out of up votes. Wasn't it!!

[Colorblindjames]

2 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

Keir Starmer’s statement to the Commons on Israel & Gaza  – The Labour Party

 

He hasn't budged from this. Which bit says Israel has the right to commit genocide?  If you are talking about the Nick Ferrari interview then listen again.  He clearly states that any withdrawal of power and water had to be within the frame of international law, which included it being temporary and with a stated objective - which was the case here as it was part of an attempt to secure a wider humanitarian crossing whilst hitting Hamas specific targets.  It's all there if people wish to look.  Starmer didn't spend years as a Human Rights lawyer to suddenly turn into a fascist. 

Withholding power and water to a civilian population is never within the frame of international law. As a lawyers he will have known this. Also no mention of temporary in the Ferrari interview. 

[Physical_graffiti]

4 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

I'm not talking about the intent of the festival-goers.  But I can assure you from personal experience that there will be an impact on the emotional wellbeing of Jews at the festival. It's a sad consequence of what is happening. 

So if not the festival-goers, why would people of a specific ethnic/religious group have their wellbeing be negatively affected by the festival?
 

[Blisterpack]

Just now, Colorblindjames said:

Withholding power and water to a civilian population is never within the frame of international law. As a lawyers he will have known this. Also no mention of temporary in the Ferrari interview. 

it actually is within the frame. He didn't need to say it was temporary because that was stated by the Israelis (it was reinstated within days and there were increased supplies of generator fuel and bottled water shipped in during that time) and he simply referred to it being subject to international law. 

We won't agree on this my friend but my belief is that Starmer is one of the good guys.  There are people rooting to the homophobic grifter Galloway; that should worry us more. 

[Blisterpack]

2 minutes ago, Physical_graffiti said:

So if not the festival-goers, why would people of a specific ethnic/religious group have their wellbeing be negatively affected by the festival?
 

the specific ethnic/religious group with about 20 million members worldwide who lost 6 million of their family within the living memory of some survivors to an antisemitic movement that had the full support of the Arab world? That one? Why would they feel negatively affected emotionally by huge groups of people showing support for the people who want to destroy the safe nation they founded legitimately to provide a haven for them? 

No idea. 

[Nuthugger]

another off topic thread that will descend into chaos. can a mod nudge it away somewhere else? 

[HotChipWillBreakYourLegs]

1 minute ago, Blisterpack said:

the specific ethnic/religious group with about 20 million members worldwide who lost 6 million of their family within the living memory of some survivors to an antisemitic movement that had the full support of the Arab world? That one? Why would they feel negatively affected emotionally by huge groups of people showing support for the people who want to destroy the safe nation they founded legitimately to provide a haven for them? 

No idea. 

 

Whilst Palestine is literally being destroyed.  Happening now.

 

And you think all the Palestinian people want to destroy the nation of Israel?  Whilst the nation of Israel is currently destroying Palestine and starving the Palestinian people?

[Physical_graffiti]

2 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

the specific ethnic/religious group with about 20 million members worldwide who lost 6 million of their family within the living memory of some survivors to an antisemitic movement that had the full support of the Arab world? That one? Why would they feel negatively affected emotionally by huge groups of people showing support for the people who want to destroy the safe nation they founded legitimately to provide a haven for them? 

No idea. 

Right, well it's clear we'll never agree, if you believe support for Palestine is support for destruction of Jews! I can assure you that is the furthest thing away from what most of us supporting Palestine believe or want.

[Physical_graffiti]

7 minutes ago, Nuthugger said:

another off topic thread that will descend into chaos. can a mod nudge it away somewhere else? 

Don't think it's particularly off topic, assumed it was a political thread (covering vibe at glasto with an imminent election, and vibe at glasto re. the main political issue at the moment), surely not a literal discussion on the D:Ream song. Potential to get heated - yes! But as long as we're all being respectful of each other, no more off topic than most other topics here.

Edited May 23, 2024 by Physical_graffiti

[Skip997]

2 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

the specific ethnic/religious group with about 20 million members worldwide who lost 6 million of their family within the living memory of some survivors to an antisemitic movement that had the full support of the Arab world? That one? Why would they feel negatively affected emotionally by huge groups of people showing support for the people who want to destroy the safe nation they founded legitimately to provide a haven for them? 

No idea. 

The overwhelming majority of “pro Palestinian” supporters are neither anti Semitic or pro Hamas.

 

 

[Blisterpack]

6 minutes ago, Physical_graffiti said:

Right, well it's clear we'll never agree, if you believe support for Palestine is support for destruction of Jews! I can assure you that is the furthest thing away from what most of us supporting Palestine believe or want.

True. But destruction of Israel is the stated aim of Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, Al Qaeda, Iran and many more in the area who Israel are fighting every day simply to exist as a nation.  Those bodies are absolutely feeling empowered by the growing support they feel in the West.  But yes, it's a horrible and complex situation and I feel increasingly isolated in my support for a nation built by socialist (many communists), intellectuals and atheists who developed a wonderful secular democracy that the world should have been copying, not looking to destroy.