UK Politics

[steviewevie]

16 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Also worth highlighting the asylum rights map:

https://rainbowmap.ilga-europe.org/categories/asylum/

asylum rights related to sex/gender etc

[kaosmark2]

2 hours ago, steviewevie said:

asylum rights related to sex/gender etc

Yes, we send people back to countries where they get tortured for being gay or trans. Not exactly great on human rights.

[steviewevie]

13 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

Yes, we send people back to countries where they get tortured for being gay or trans. Not exactly great on human rights.

Under UK Asylum law we don't send them back if they are going to get tortured.

[steviewevie]

Police investigate donations by Richard Tice company to Reform UK - BBC News

[kaosmark2]

6 hours ago, steviewevie said:

Under UK Asylum law we don't send them back if they are going to get tortured.

Because the UK gov is so good at following its own laws about human rights.

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

So, I expect Burnham was hoping on some sort of consensus on tax increases to pay for social care, but Badenoch has poopooed that, so might be dead on arrival when everyone starts calling it death tax or dementia tax like previous attempts. If can't get that through, then it will have to be insurance based. A shame that it just gets turned into a political football each time a govt tries to sort it out.

 

[xxialac]

13 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

So, I expect Burnham was hoping on some sort of consensus on tax increases to pay for social care, but Badenoch has poopooed that, so might be dead on arrival when everyone starts calling it death tax or dementia tax like previous attempts. If can't get that through, then it will have to be insurance based. A shame that it just gets turned into a political football each time a govt tries to sort it out.

 

I don't think the Conservatives could be said to have 'tried to sort it out'!

 

A massive majority and 14 years in power and they did FA.

[lost]

He's going to have enough issues from his own party. There are already mutterings from the Starm troopers that his sums don't add up and they are probably right.

 

Today in the papers he's saying he's going to reduce the benefits bill after his own supporters destroyed Starmer’s term by voting down his attempts to reform the system.

 

 

 

Edited Monday at 10:19 by lost

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, xxialac said:

I don't think the Conservatives could be said to have 'tried to sort it out'!

 

A massive majority and 14 years in power and they did FA.

Theresa May did.

[steviewevie]

8 minutes ago, lost said:

He's going to have enough issues from his own party. There are already mutterings from the Starm troopers that his sums don't add up and they are probably right.

 

Today in the papers he's saying he's going to reduce the benefits bill after his own supporters destroyed Starmer’s term by voting down his attempts to reform the system.

 

 

 

It will be what they do to help some people get off long term disability benefits and into work, and that might mean higher short term spending. I expect a lot of Labour MPs are actually ok with some sort of welfare reform, as long as it is not seen as cruelty just to make the sums add up.

[xxialac]

7 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Theresa May did.

I'm referring to the Tories as a whole.

 

May may have had the balls to tackle it but she was undermined by Senior Tories and had to drop it.

[steviewevie]

Just now, xxialac said:

I'm referring to the Tories as a whole.

 

May may have had the balls to tackle it but she was undermined by Senior Tories and had to drop it.

I guess doing it as part of an election campaign was high risk, and opposition and papers jumped all over it.

[lost]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

It will be what they do to help some people get off long term disability benefits and into work, and that might mean higher short term spending. I expect a lot of Labour MPs are actually ok with some sort of welfare reform, as long as it is not seen as cruelty just to make the sums add up.

 

I dunno. I think alot will see having to do voluntary work to get your benefits as cruel. The issue is as soon as you do "something" the system will see that you could do that as a job.

Edited Monday at 10:34 by lost

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, lost said:

 

I dunno. I think alot will see having to do voluntary work to get your benefits as cruel. The issue is as soon as you do "something" the system will see that you could do that as a job.

we don't know what they're proposing yet.

[steviewevie]

Also with Tories and social care...Hammond tried to do this...scrapped within days..

Budget 2017: £2bn for social care and tax rise for self-employed - BBC News

[lost]

7 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

we don't know what they're proposing yet.

 

Well the papers are saying turning down voluntary work or training will result in disability benefits being stopped.

 

If that is true they are bascially admitting there are a load of young people on disability benefits because it pays better than minimum wage so the solution is to train them in a skill that pays better than minimum wage and that will make them want to get job.

 

Its pretty much admitting what the Starmer policy did by "tightening" the criteria, that there are a load of people on benefits taking the piss.

Edited Monday at 10:43 by lost

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, lost said:

 

Well the papers are saying turning down voluntary work or training will result in disability benefits being stopped.

 

If that is true they are bascially admitting there are a load of young people on disability benefits because it pays better than minimum wage so the solution is to train them in a skill that pays better than minimum wage and that will make them want to get job.

 

Its pretty much admitting what the Starmer policy did by "tightening" the criteria, that there are a load of people on benefits taking the piss.

ok, but he is how you word it, because obviously there are also a lot of people on benefits who have been let down by the system. It needs carrots and sticks, and help and support rather than stigma and cruelty.

[lost]

7 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

It needs carrots and sticks, and help and support rather than stigma and cruelty.

 

I agree. I'm just describing how most people probably feel the system should work. Someone who is too disabled to work is exactly that. The minute politicians start suggesting there are people in the system not because of disability but due to say training or never having tried getting up at 7am and gong and doing something there is going to be alot of push back

Edited Monday at 10:55 by lost

[steviewevie]

Now then...

 

[pink_triangle]

34 minutes ago, xxialac said:

I'm referring to the Tories as a whole.

 

May may have had the balls to tackle it but she was undermined by Senior Tories and had to drop it.

It’s easy to blame the tories, but it was Labour who called it the dementia tax and helped sink it. The trouble is sorting this problem is going to be expensive and opposition parties can’t resist the opportunity for political capital.

[xxialac]

11 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

It’s easy to blame the tories, but it was Labour who called it the dementia tax and helped sink it. The trouble is sorting this problem is going to be expensive and opposition parties can’t resist the opportunity for political capital.

Blame lays on both sides.

 

If May had greater leadership skills and had brought her cabinet into line and sold it better to the press she could have got it through. Her lack of leadership abilities was all too apparent and it was the Tories who chose her as PM.

[steviewevie]

10 minutes ago, xxialac said:

Blame lays on both sides.

 

If May had greater leadership skills and had brought her cabinet into line and sold it better to the press she could have got it through. Her lack of leadership abilities was all too apparent and it was the Tories who chose her as PM.

Boris Johnson had plans for social care too...his health and social care levy which meant an increase in NI...but the health side took all the money with all the covid stuff. and then partygate did for Boris....and the NI rises got reversed...

Edited Monday at 11:29 by steviewevie

[xxialac]

4 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Boris Johnson had plans for social care too...his health and social care levy which meant an increase in NI...but the health side took all the money with all the covid stuff. and then partygate did for Boris....and the NI rises got reversed...

True.

 

The fact remains that in 14 years the Tories did not address the enormous problem of social care so it's quite a cheek to turn on Labour for how they are trying to do so. 

[pink_triangle]

33 minutes ago, xxialac said:

Blame lays on both sides.

 

If May had greater leadership skills and had brought her cabinet into line and sold it better to the press she could have got it through. Her lack of leadership abilities was all too apparent and it was the Tories who chose her as PM.

I honestly don’t think they could have got it through, as soon as Labour called it the dementia tax it was toxic. I’m starting to wonder that it would take government and opposition to unite to ever sort it out, but what opposition will be willing to take the hit.