UK Politics

[Neil]

1 hour ago, Ommadawn said:

Yes - they're bowling at an open wicket.

At a want it all daft  electorate.

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I don’t think so, looks like the public either weren’t that aware of the policy and/or thought it was too expensive. 

yes but Tories will make them aware, they don't have much to attack Labour on but this will be one thing.

[steviewevie]

I guess the Tories can't attack them on being both reckless with this policy and flip flopping...contradict each other.

[Ozanne]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yes but Tories will make them aware, they don't have much to attack Labour on but this will be one thing.

They’ve been doing that for a while now. As much as the Tories would’ve wanted this attack to have worked, it looks like Labour have then played them and come out looking better. 

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

They’ve been doing that for a while now. As much as the Tories would’ve wanted this attack to have worked, it looks like Labour have then played them and come out looking better. 

we'll see. I don't think it is the political win you think it is. But them I'm biased because I think the whole thing is a bunch of sh*t.

[Ozanne]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

we'll see. I don't think it is the political win you think it is. But them I'm biased because I think the whole thing is a bunch of sh*t.

Well it could’ve gone a lot worse for Labour and so far it doesn’t look like the big deal it was being made out to be. Not everyone is desperate to spend £28b a year it seems. 

[fraybentos1]

14 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Well it could’ve gone a lot worse for Labour and so far it doesn’t look like the big deal it was being made out to be. Not everyone is desperate to spend £28b a year it seems. 

It was Labour who wanted to spend 28bn in the first place! That's the only reason that figure is ever mentioned. You're acting as if the general public plucked 28 billion out the sky by themselves.

[lazyred]

25 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Well it could’ve gone a lot worse for Labour and so far it doesn’t look like the big deal it was being made out to be. Not everyone is desperate to spend £28b a year it seems. 

Times article today says they decided to ditch the 28bn ages ago but wanted to wait until march to blame it on the budget/ tory legacy. If they can do similar to what the lib dem/tories did in 2010 blaming the global crash on labour then they will have a lot of tolerance for not doing much in the early years. 

Edited February 9 by lazyred

[lazyred]

2 minutes ago, lazyred said:

Times article today says they decided to ditch the 28bn ages ago but wanted to wait until march to blame it on the budget/ tory legacy. If they can do similar to what the lib dem/tories did in 2010 blaming the global crash on labour then they will have a lot of tolerance for not doing much in the early years. 

And by ages ago they started to think about it in 2022. So they played everyone, annouced the policy to get through a tricky conference in 2021 and hope to blame the tories for not doing it

[steviewevie]

13 minutes ago, lazyred said:

Times article today says they decided to ditch the 28bn ages ago but wanted to wait until march to blame it on the budget/ tory legacy. If they can do similar to what the lib dem/tories did in 2010 blaming the global crash on labour then they will have a lot of tolerance for not doing much in the early years. 

this was a pretty good explainer on it too...

Labour’s £28bn green policy U-turn – podcast | News | The Guardian

[lost]

10 minutes ago, lazyred said:

And by ages ago they started to think about it in 2022. So they played everyone, annouced the policy to get through a tricky conference in 2021 and hope to blame the tories for not doing it

Makes sense. As they supported all the covid spending it would of been more difficult to nail it on that. Liz Truss coming along like a gift from the Gods.

[steviewevie]

23 minutes ago, lazyred said:

Times article today says they decided to ditch the 28bn ages ago but wanted to wait until march to blame it on the budget/ tory legacy. If they can do similar to what the lib dem/tories did in 2010 blaming the global crash on labour then they will have a lot of tolerance for not doing much in the early years. 

think they have been split on it for a while...but the Truss thing f**ked it and then Reeves started talking fiscal rules last summer was the beginning of the end.

[Neil]

2 hours ago, Ozanne said:

Well it could’ve gone a lot worse for Labour and so far it doesn’t look like the big deal it was being made out to be. Not everyone is desperate to spend £28b a year it seems. 

Too few seem to realise that these things are either this or that.too many new problems keep getting exposed, bankrupt councils are a Biggie cos councils will be delivering lots of stuff. Can't solve many NHS problems without funding councils for carers. So if people are asked green stuff or the NHS. Theres only one choice for the voter and for the party that wants their vote.

[steviewevie]

18 minutes ago, Neil said:

Too few seem to realise that these things are either this or that.too many new problems keep getting exposed, bankrupt councils are a Biggie cos councils will be delivering lots of stuff. Can't solve many NHS problems without funding councils for carers. So if people are asked green stuff or the NHS. Theres only one choice for the voter and for the party that wants their vote.

these things can be separated out. The point of the green industrial clean energy thingy was borrowing an extra amount to what they already borrow to invest in this stuff...and when invest in long run you get a good return which pays for that investment. Other stuff is paid for by usual tax/borrowing. If they want to keep tax same or even reduce it, then either going to need to borrow more, or more likely cut. 

[steviewevie]

 

[Ozanne]

2 hours ago, lazyred said:

Times article today says they decided to ditch the 28bn ages ago but wanted to wait until march to blame it on the budget/ tory legacy. If they can do similar to what the lib dem/tories did in 2010 blaming the global crash on labour then they will have a lot of tolerance for not doing much in the early years. 

It was also a different time back in 2021, Labour were behind in the polls and the economy was in a better state.

I agree with your last point, they will have a couple of years where they can blame it on the Tories. 

[steviewevie]

[charlierc]

7 hours ago, fraybentos1 said:

Now there'll be 2 threads full of arguments instead of 1 😆

Start the clock to count down until this one gets locked?

[Skip997]

11 minutes ago, charlierc said:

Start the clock to count down until this one gets locked?

We've lost one and the other one is being monitored

We may have a chance

Edited February 9 by Skip997

[steviewevie]

Which thread should this be in?

Discuss.

[steviewevie]

 

[Neil]

2 hours ago, steviewevie said:

these things can be separated out. The point of the green industrial clean energy thingy was borrowing an extra amount to what they already borrow to invest in this stuff...and when invest in long run you get a good return which pays for that investment. Other stuff is paid for by usual tax/borrowing. If they want to keep tax same or even reduce it, then either going to need to borrow more, or more likely cut. 

You only get a good return if its a good 😊 investment. There's also an incease in the tax take because of the increased spending.

[steviewevie]

10 minutes ago, Neil said:

You only get a good return if its a good 😊 investment. There's also an incease in the tax take because of the increased spending.

the first bit I agree with...the second bit I don't understand.

[Neil]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

the first bit I agree with...the second bit I don't understand.

extra spending grows the economy, and cos the economy is bigger the amount of tax collected is also bigger.

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, Neil said:

extra spending grows the economy, and cos the economy is bigger the amount of tax collected is also bigger.

ah yes, agree with that bit too. Sorry, bit slow (drunk).