Should Nina Kraviz have been booked for Arcadia?

[Florian Saucer Attack]

3 minutes ago, TheDayman said:

I just did, right before your post.

Yeah I wish I managed to post my comment 10 seconds earlier.

Irregardless this is not great evidence. She supported the arrest of an oligarch who was found guilty of fraud, embezzlement and money laundering. Which the European court of human rights concluded the arrest was not politically motivated  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13600198  Putin pardoned him two years after the Kraviz clip and we can only conclude Kraviz did not approve of the pardon

Again what other people say she said is hearsay.

 

 

 

[blutarsky]

1 hour ago, SouthbanKen said:

Would you agree that calling for Peace is "opposing the invasion"?

Also, would you agree that at no point in publicly opposing the invasion were Noel's or Billy Braggs families at risk of government sanctioned harassment or violence. 

I've made this exact point previously. Ultimately I'm a bit on the fence but the evidence people are posting is making me lean towards the idea she's supportive of Putin and supportive of the Russian state. I think the post for "peace" is a bit weak, but understand there are many reasons that may be the case. 

As I said before, nothing is black and white. Except penguins and zebras. 

[stuie]

So, is this dude not scared for himself, his family or his friends? 

He lives in Moscow. Nina lives in Berlin. 

 

[gigpusher]

17 minutes ago, stuie said:

So, is this dude not scared for himself, his family or his friends? 

He lives in Moscow. Nina lives in Berlin. 

 

There have been some incredibly brave individuals and there are people from the company that I work with who have been arrested etc. I don't think we should expect everyone to be that brave. People could have a myriad of reasons for not being that brave. 

 

[Hugh Jass II]

2 minutes ago, TASHMA BWABWE said:

It is my understanding that Nina Kraviz lives in both Moscow and Berlin.

At the same time?

[gigpusher]

Just now, Hugh Jass II said:

At the same time?

Yet another plot worthy of M Night Shyamalan!!!

[Hugh Jass II]

2 minutes ago, gigpusher said:

Yet another plot worthy of M Night Shyamalan!!!

It wasn't Russia at all.

It was aliens... from the future!

[gigpusher]

Just now, Hugh Jass II said:

It wasn't Russia at all.

It was aliens... from the future!

If only that might make it easier for people to get over. 

[TheDayman]

1 hour ago, Florian Saucer Attack said:

Yeah I wish I managed to post my comment 10 seconds earlier.

Irregardless this is not great evidence. She supported the arrest of an oligarch who was found guilty of fraud, embezzlement and money laundering. Which the European court of human rights concluded the arrest was not politically motivated  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13600198  Putin pardoned him two years after the Kraviz clip and we can only conclude Kraviz did not approve of the pardon

Again what other people say she said is hearsay.

Ultimately, the reason we are debating this is because we don't have outright evidence either way. It's also the reason juries have 12 people. We plead our cases and it's up to each individual to make their decision.

I'm here to express my view and if that influences others, fair enough. I believe at a minimum there's enough smoke to cast a shadow over her appearance at Glasto. The size and impact of that shadow is ultimately up to the festival to decide.

----------

Re: Khodorkovsky - this has the potential to spiral into an entirely different conversation on Russian politics (which I have a keen interest in) so I've separated it slightly. Do I believe he committed the crimes he was convicted of? I'm very skeptical. Do I think it's very convenient that he was convicted shortly after he was outspoken against Putin? Absolutely.

An absolutely fantastic book to read is Red Notice by Bill Browder, it's eye opening. Here's also a great New Yorker article on him https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/08/20/how-bill-browder-became-russias-most-wanted-man

The accounts of Khodorkovsky and Browder, the murder of Boris Nemtsov, the poisoning and eventual death of Alexander Litvinenko, the poisoning and imprisonment of Alexey Navalny - these are all things that have provided context in informing my opinion the Russia state. The fact that she is on record as being Pro-Russian state, that doesn't sit well with me. 

Edited April 29, 2022 by TheDayman

[Florian Saucer Attack]

25 minutes ago, TheDayman said:

Ultimately, the reason we are debating this is because we don't have outright evidence either way. It's also the reason juries have 12 people. We plead our cases and it's up to each individual to make their decision.

Indeed and if this was a trial your case would be thrown out of court due to an extreme lack of evidence. 

Let her play!

[TheDayman]

1 minute ago, Florian Saucer Attack said:

Indeed and if this was a trial your case would be thrown out of court due to an extreme lack of evidence. 

Let her play!

Maybe so but let's see how it all unfolds. If she's dropped, I'll be coming right back here to say I told you so! 😉

[TheDayman]

...

Edited April 29, 2022 by TheDayman
Dupla Posta

[SouthbanKen]

2 hours ago, gigpusher said:

We're not. Roman Abramovich has recently been involved with peace talks but he has still quite rightly been sanctioned. You could argue that being involved in peace talks is even more anti-war than writing the word peace on a bit of paper but his history is being taken into account. Anyone with little morals can turn on a friend when the wind changes if it helps you keep your job. 

Comparing Roman Abramovich and Nina Kravis is a joke right? Abramovich is one of the 5 most powerful people in Russia, he was arguably Putin's Kingmaker and as a direct result became (for a time) the richest man in the world. Its like comparing Rupert Murdoch or Boris Johnson with Calvin Harris.   

[SouthbanKen]

1 hour ago, gigpusher said:

There have been some incredibly brave individuals and there are people from the company that I work with who have been arrested etc. I don't think we should expect everyone to be that brave. People could have a myriad of reasons for not being that brave. 

 

Completely agree. I got Rublev and Medvedev mixed up in another post. The bravery of some cannot be used as criticism of others. 

[Hugh Jass II]

2 minutes ago, SouthbanKen said:

Comparing Roman Abramovich and Nina Kravis is a joke right? Abramovich is one of the 5 most powerful people in Russia, he was arguably Putin's Kingmaker and as a direct result became (for a time) the richest man in the world. Its like comparing Rupert Murdoch or Boris Johnson with Calvin Harris.   

So we should ban Calvin Harris too?

I'm on board with that...

[SouthbanKen]

2 hours ago, Bucketsquad said:

Calling for peace and calling out Putin are 2 completely different things though.

Yeah the first sets out your position without putting you directly in the line of fire of an all powerful megalomaniac. The second, not so much. 

[gigpusher]

25 minutes ago, SouthbanKen said:

Comparing Roman Abramovich and Nina Kravis is a joke right? Abramovich is one of the 5 most powerful people in Russia, he was arguably Putin's Kingmaker and as a direct result became (for a time) the richest man in the world. Its like comparing Rupert Murdoch or Boris Johnson with Calvin Harris.   

Just pointing out that you said the last thing someone says is what we should use to decide whether to sanction someone or not. He has come out with stronger words of peace and arguably been a little more critical of Putin than she has. My point was to prove that the last thing you say doesn't negate all your past actions which you evidently now agree with. 

[SouthbanKen]

1 hour ago, gigpusher said:

Just pointing out that you said the last thing someone says is what we should use to decide whether to sanction someone or not. He has come out with stronger words of peace and arguably been a little more critical of Putin than she has. My point was to prove that the last thing you say doesn't negate all your past actions which you evidently now agree with. 

You're still comparing one of the most powerful people in Russia to a DJ. They are not comparable. 

[stuie]

13 minutes ago, SouthbanKen said:

You're still comparing one of the most powerful people in Russia to a DJ. They are not comparable. 

But she's the techno queen.

All of you saying she should play Glasto will change your minds when you see her b2b partner, Vladimir.

[gigpusher]

21 minutes ago, SouthbanKen said:

You're still comparing one of the most powerful people in Russia to a DJ. They are not comparable. 

If the standard Glastonbury is using is sure she might have shown support for Putin but at least she's not an oligarch then yes I'd agree they are not comparable but I personally think at this moment in time there was no need to add her to the line up and all it has done is sully the line up having her on there. Beyond that I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Every day I listen to my colleagues whose lives have been turned upside down by this war (and that's people both in Russia and Ukraine) and I just don't think she brings anything to the line up that isn't outweighed by the controversy around her at the moment. 

 

[MaxPower]

Lmao just some real time evidence of Nina being a bellend which is funny 

 

[stuie]

Clone Records have issued a statement confirming they’ve ended their distribution contract with Nina Kraviz. 

https://clone.nl/blog/trip/?fbclid=IwAR0-_jvEYJLjTsr0SV5lB7NoAsiiFGPD0xvCFbpyjLTCCnd0NqoYslq7--k

[anditmakesmesmile]

15 hours ago, stuie said:

Clone Records have issued a statement confirming they’ve ended their distribution contract with Nina Kraviz. 

https://clone.nl/blog/trip/?fbclid=IwAR0-_jvEYJLjTsr0SV5lB7NoAsiiFGPD0xvCFbpyjLTCCnd0NqoYslq7--k

That’s pretty convincing stuff. Here is an organisation that will take a commercial hit by severing ties with her. Someone who knows more about her than most. And he walks away. That decides it for me. 

[Gwladboy]

I’m assuming we’re all cycling to the festival now, you know so as not to be accused of supporting Russia in any way.

[Gwladboy]

A friend of mine is Russian. On the day of the invasion she told me that she hoped Putin would be shot, it was the only way she could see a solution.  She said that everyone she knows feels the same but no-one can say anything negative, even from outside the country because they will go after their families and friends.  Brothers and sisters bank accounts stop working, students get kicked out of uni, people lose their jobs and lifestyles.  It’s easy to sit here and say ‘she should say something’ but would you if it meant all your closest family and friends lose everything.  It’s bloody complicated and after that conversation I understood a little more.

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by Gwladboy