Róisín Murphy

[angelin]

Really? None of my nieces or their friends all early twenties have never even heard of her. 

[giantkatestacks]

1 hour ago, Isaact said:

Yep, it is a song that would have absolutely stormed the gay clubs me and my friends go to if she had kept her mouth shut.

Can't see it getting played in a million years in them now.

You see I find this very difficult as it has a strong 'women know your place' vibe. 

[Johndenis]

On 9/12/2023 at 10:09 AM, zahidf said:

Yeah, her statement saying she never made music for the LGBTQ community is very limiting

Has she made a statement?  I thought she was saying nothing.  Which was a damaging strategy imo.  If she is saying she didn't think she had a huge gay fanbase, that's just a lie 🙂

[Isaact]

16 hours ago, giantkatestacks said:

You see I find this very difficult as it has a strong 'women know your place' vibe. 

I mean it does if you assume every gay club is owned and operated by men, I guess.

Oh, and if you completely ignore the L in LGBTQ+.

Oh, and if you completely ignore the fact that cis women are most likely to be pro-trans, and of these cis women cis lesbians are overwhelmingly pro trans and strong allies.

But sure, if you ignore all of that, then yes, it is 'women know your place'

[giantkatestacks]

44 minutes ago, Isaact said:

I mean it does if you assume every gay club is owned and operated by men, I guess.

Oh, and if you completely ignore the L in LGBTQ+.

Oh, and if you completely ignore the fact that cis women are most likely to be pro-trans, and of these cis women cis lesbians are overwhelmingly pro trans and strong allies.

But sure, if you ignore all of that, then yes, it is 'women know your place'

No one is talking about the wider bin fire of public debate on these issues here. This is about puberty blockers and children which should be discussed rationally and using data and expert opinion. And not probably usefully in a forum on music festivals. And probably not anywhere at all if all women keep their mouths shut.

[Skip997]

7 minutes ago, giantkatestacks said:

This is about puberty blockers and children which should be discussed rationally and using data and expert opinion. 

Are we allowed to do that?

I don't mean on here, I mean generally

Edited September 13, 2023 by Skip997

[stuie]

22 minutes ago, giantkatestacks said:

No one is talking about the wider bin fire of public debate on these issues here. This is about puberty blockers and children which should be discussed rationally and using data and expert opinion. And not probably usefully in a forum on music festivals. And probably not anywhere at all if all women keep their mouths shut.

That's a bit of a reach.  He didn't say anything about women keeping their mouths shut.  He was referring to her mouth - singular and she happens to be a woman. 

You seem to be calling for rational debate and being sensational at the same time. 

[zahidf]

29 minutes ago, giantkatestacks said:

No one is talking about the wider bin fire of public debate on these issues here. This is about puberty blockers and children which should be discussed rationally and using data and expert opinion. And not probably usefully in a forum on music festivals. And probably not anywhere at all if all women keep their mouths shut.

Not what shes doing though is it?

 

https://www.out.com/celebs/roisin-murphy

 

"Please don't call me a TERF [trans-exclusionary radical feminist], please don't keep using that word against women. I beg you! But puberty blockers are f---ed, absolutely desolate, big pharma laughing all the way to the bank," Murphy commented on someone else’s post. "Little mixed-up kids are vulnerable and need to be protected, that's just true."

Although she wrote with conviction in that comment, her claims are verifiably false. The medical journal Pediatrics found suicidal ideation decreases with access to puberty blockers during adolescence and the Journal of the American Medical Association found “60% lower odds of depression” and “73% lower odds of suicidality” in adolescents who were taking puberty blockers.

Also, she doesnt want a debate

 

"I understand fixed views are not helpful but I really hope people can understand my concern was out of love for all of us."

 

[Isaact]

22 minutes ago, giantkatestacks said:

No one is talking about the wider bin fire of public debate on these issues here. This is about puberty blockers and children which should be discussed rationally and using data and expert opinion. And not probably usefully in a forum on music festivals. And probably not anywhere at all if all women keep their mouths shut.

 

15 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

Are we allowed to do that?

I don't mean on here, I mean generally

Personally, I would rather it debated using data and expert opinion by medical professionals, which, like any other medical treatment, it has been for decades and continues to be.

The evidence shows time and time again that you massively reduce instances of suicide and self harm when you proscribe puberty blockers to kids with gender dysphoria.

In addition, she put forward a total conspiracy theory that is provably false. Puberty blockers do not make pharma companies huge profits, they are out of patent and so make very little money for the companies selling them.

They are proscribed by medical professionals as the alternative is self harm and suicide.

[Skip997]

3 minutes ago, Isaact said:

 

Personally, I would rather it debated using data and expert opinion by medical professionals, which, like any other medical treatment, it has been for decades and continues to be.

The evidence shows time and time again that you massively reduce instances of suicide and self harm when you proscribe puberty blockers to kids with gender dysphoria.

In addition, she put forward a total conspiracy theory that is provably false. Puberty blockers do not make pharma companies huge profits, they are out of patent and so make very little money for the companies selling them.

They are proscribed by medical professionals as the alternative is self harm and suicide.

I agree. This Murphy controversy has led me to do a bit of reading on the subject and changed my view somewhat.

So a positive has come from it.

[stuie]

29 minutes ago, Isaact said:

They are proscribed by medical professionals as the alternative is self harm and suicide.

This is the key point here. 

People are stepping over this fact and using it in the current anti-trans not in my toilet thanks binfire that's raging on twitter and GB news at the moment. 

We've made so much progress in the last 20 years - it's a different world to when I stepped out on to the rainbow - but lately, it feels like we're going backwards with so much hateful rhetoric and division.

Have a look on twitter, Roisin has brand new fans who are now fans only because of what she's said.  I'm not saying she should be cancelled or anything but people in the public eye have a responsibility to be careful with their words and not stoke the fire of the anti-woke right movement. 

[giantkatestacks]

Yes, I think that's true @stuie absolutely. I think it can also be true that puberty blockers for children are not the harmless pause button that everyone thought they were originally: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment/

I think there's harmful and unhelpful rhetoric on all sides which is fundamentally damaging when you're really talking about evidenced=based healthcare. 

 

[JonSnow]

3 minutes ago, stuie said:

This is the key point here. 

People are stepping over this fact and using it in the current anti-trans not in my toilet thanks binfire that's raging on twitter and GB news at the moment. 

We've made so much progress in the last 20 years - it's a different world to when I stepped out on to the rainbow - but lately, it feels like we're going backwards with so much hateful rhetoric and division.

Have a look on twitter, Roisin has brand new fans who are now fans only because of what she's said.  I'm not saying she should be cancelled or anything but people in the public eye have a responsibility to be careful with their words and not stoke the fire of the anti-woke right movement. 

All the yougov polls suggest that there has been a general decline in trans rights support since 2018.

Unfortunately the tactics the right wing (largely Murdoch media led) are employing are working.

Whether the left/progressives response tactics are making this decline less bad or compounding it further is another debate, one I personally don't have a good grasp on.

Either way its thoroughly depressing to see this

 

[gigpusher]

35 minutes ago, stuie said:

This is the key point here. 

People are stepping over this fact and using it in the current anti-trans not in my toilet thanks binfire that's raging on twitter and GB news at the moment. 

We've made so much progress in the last 20 years - it's a different world to when I stepped out on to the rainbow - but lately, it feels like we're going backwards with so much hateful rhetoric and division.

Have a look on twitter, Roisin has brand new fans who are now fans only because of what she's said.  I'm not saying she should be cancelled or anything but people in the public eye have a responsibility to be careful with their words and not stoke the fire of the anti-woke right movement. 

Although a key point for me is, is what she wrote any worse than the many, many anti-vaxers. It's not really an unheard of position for artists to not have the hugest grasp on the scientific world and to be sceptical of pharmaceutical companies. What she did write was on a private Facebook account and in no way intended to be public. She may well be a transphobe but on the small amount of evidence I saw I couldn't say she is. The quick call to assume the worst in people has a tendency to make them become the worst.

 

[CaledonianGonzo]

Not a comparison that does her many favours I'm afraid.   Anti-vaxers are also bad and, frankly, downright dangerous.

[zahidf]

2 hours ago, gigpusher said:

Although a key point for me is, is what she wrote any worse than the many, many anti-vaxers. It's not really an unheard of position for artists to not have the hugest grasp on the scientific world and to be sceptical of pharmaceutical companies. What she did write was on a private Facebook account and in no way intended to be public. She may well be a transphobe but on the small amount of evidence I saw I couldn't say she is. The quick call to assume the worst in people has a tendency to make them become the worst.

 

Yeah the anti vaxers careers aren't exactly on fire either 

She had a chance to walk back her comments and failed, so I don't think it's been a rush to judgement.

[gigpusher]

1 hour ago, zahidf said:

Yeah the anti vaxers careers aren't exactly on fire either 

She had a chance to walk back her comments and failed, so I don't think it's been a rush to judgement.

Not exactly on fire but I have definitely not seen the same level of reaction to it. Maybe I just haven’t read it the same way as other people but she doesn’t seem to me to have said anything hateful about trans people or their right to exist she doesn’t agree with a particular kind of medicine. 
 

I used to work with a woman who was otherwise very nice and kind who had really weird opinions about anti-depressants. She thought it was also some big pharmaceutical conspiracy and I disagreed with her but it didn’t stop her doing her job and being good at it. 

[Wooderson]

"Can't Replicate" is a titanobanger. Top 3 best things shes ever done.

[Wooderson]

BTW I don't condone her v recent lementable comments / grim statement. Fully expect her to roll back from it all in due course. Ignorance, baby. As Irish as spuds.

[Skip997]

3 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

Ignorance, baby. As Irish as spuds.

Being Irish, I could well take offense at that.

[Wooderson]

3 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

Being Irish, I could well take offense at that.

Why?

[Skip997]

Just now, Wooderson said:

Why?

You're claiming that the Irish are an ignorant people.

[Wooderson]

Just now, Skip997 said:

You're claiming that the Irish are an ignorant people.

From personal experience, yes. 😄

[Skip997]

4 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

From personal experience, yes. 😄

Just noticed you're from Dublin, so maybe.

[balti-pie]

i think its fine to call the irish ignorant (ignorant as in not aware of things outside their sphere, rather than thick n stupid) if you are an irish, which it looks like Wooderson is. (as indeed am i, for that matter)