news & politics:discussion

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, lost said:

I still don't think people would go out if they thought they were going to die. The issue was most people knew they were going to be ok. The lockdown was to slow the spread not stop. People still went out and congregated in supermarkets and the like whilst others went to work. I don't think anyone thought it would stop the spread surely?

well, we don't know...it's a massive experiment, sure I think a lot of people would stay at home, especially those that are vulnerable, but some people had to go out for whatever reason, work etc. And then there's schools and colleges, pubs and nightclubs...places where an airborne virus could spread very easily. Basically the govt saw that systems were quickly getting overwhelmed and had to act quickly...and all there is is to tell people to stay home...and if you're going to do that there has to be pay outs required for those that needed it.

[cellar]

1 minute ago, lost said:

We had a building fire near me recently and someone came around and said there may of been asbestos in the roof and everyone should stay in with windows and doors shut until the all clear was given. I didn't see a single person in the street. I genuinely don't believe people are that f**king stupid.

I think you have more faith in people than I do!

But in seriousness - people react to what they can see. I'm surprised as many people complied as did during lockdown. I think the... "media fallout" (?) since Covid means people feel like they trust governments and media less, so I think if another pandemic happened, people would be less likely to believe and less likely to comply. Which could be incredibly catastrophic. And the Tories have a big portion of the blame there.

[lost]

1 minute ago, cellar said:

I think you have more faith in people than I do!

But in seriousness - people react to what they can see. I'm surprised as many people complied as did during lockdown. I think the... "media fallout" (?) since Covid means people feel like they trust governments and media less, so I think if another pandemic happened, people would be less likely to believe and less likely to comply. Which could be incredibly catastrophic. And the Tories have a big portion of the blame there.

I don't disagree with any of that and yes a similar virus where the government again tried to elevate the risk for younger healthier people would be met with more cynicism. A virus though that was killing a significant number of healthy people it infected I think people would act differently because well its how we've survived as a species.

[Ozanne]

19 minutes ago, lost said:

I still don't think people would go out if they thought they were going to die. The issue was most people knew they were going to be ok. The lockdown was to slow the spread not stop. People still went out and congregated in supermarkets and the like whilst others went to work. I don't think anyone thought it would stop the spread surely?

The majority of people complied with lockdown/restrictions because they knew it was the right thing to do to protect others and themselves. They also showed to work by slowing the virus after Johnson let it get out of control. We really had no choice but to lockdown after Johnson ignored all advice every time and the NHS was getting overrun. 

[cellar]

13 minutes ago, lost said:

I don't disagree with any of that and yes a similar virus where the government again tried to elevate the risk for younger healthier people would be met with more cynicism. A virus though that was killing a significant number of healthy people it infected I think people would act differently because well its how we've survived as a species.

I think it would take a virus like SARS to get people complying - and a virus like that would kill itself off fairly quickly naturally anyway, so it might not reach that level of transmission. 

[cellar]

3 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

The majority of people locked down because they where manipulated and forced into doing it which is not the same thing.  That conditioning then developed into people feeling it was the right thing to do.

Who today is making rational judgments on what happened ?   Not many as far as I can see.  Everyone has taken up positions on the subject and won't be knocked down.  Myself included on some of it.

Wearing face masks, lock downs being correct and shutting the borders being correct are viewed by most as being the right reactions while there being very little data all these have actually made any real difference.  But the public overwhelming would agree these things are good.

We was manipulated heavily by Spi-B and political messaging.  Science became political in the form of Independent Sage and everything around that.  Political careers where built off the back of it.  Biden for example.  If a lot of Covid measures where found to be wrong it would impact Biden for sure given some of his stances.

Ultimately its beyond any of us to truly work all this out.  It needs properly unbiased investigation and analysis and you won't find that in the Covid enquiry as far as I can see.

Really well said - and especially that this inquiry does very little to further our robustness in responding to a future pandemic event.

[mattiloy]

Sweden was very chill officially - bars were open as normal throughout the first wave - but I remember they were much quieter at first.

It was pretty weird. It all felt a bit slap dash. My work made us work through almost the whole first wave and then eventually switched to a system whereby half the staff were in for one week then half the next for a few months. Masks were never widespread but the bars eventually had to have plastic screens between tables and table service only. But normal open hours for much of it. In the second wave the bars were only open til 10pm and then in the worst couple of weeks until 4pm. People would just go out and get rat arsed super early. I remember during one of the waves going to a bar which was not so strict on the rules and singing karaoke in the basement until the early hours, drinking with gay abandon, sharing the mic with strangers. All the while family and friends were all getting dogs just to justify going outside for a walk in the uk.

What Sweden did much better I think is in protecting hospitals and care homes. Not universally, but on the whole better. And i think thats why the stats are fairly okay.

Edited October 31, 2023 by mattiloy

[steviewevie]

12 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Sweden was very chill officially - bars were open as normal throughout the first wave - but I remember they were much quieter at first.

It was pretty weird. It all felt a bit slap dash. My work made us work through almost the whole first wave and then eventually switched to a system whereby half the staff were in for one week then half the next for a few months. Masks were never widespread but the bars eventually had to have plastic screens between tables and table service only. But normal open hours for much of it. In the second wave the bars were only open til 10pm and then in the worst couple of weeks until 4pm. People would just go out and get rat arsed super early. I remember during one of the waves going to a bar which was not so strict on the rules and singing karaoke in the basement until the early hours, drinking with gay abandon, sharing the mic with strangers. All the while family and friends were all getting dogs just to justify going outside for a walk in the uk.

What Sweden did much better I think is in protecting hospitals and care homes. Not universally, but on the whole better. And i think thats why the stats are fairly okay.

I thought Sweden f**ked up keeping it out of care homes too.

[Ozanne]

I’m sure the inquiry will do a good job in getting to the bottom of the UK’s failure to handle the pandemic crisis and will present ways to that the UK can be better prepared for future pandemics. I’m sure the people slightly the inquiry have their own agendas but I have faith they will do a good job.

If it happens again, hopefully we’ll have a government that will listen to the recommendations and enact the findings unlike the last one. 

[Ozanne]

 

[cellar]

2 hours ago, Barry Fish said:

Based on what?  Listened to any of it beyond the headlines ?  The whole thing is turning out to be pointless.

Typical Ozanne post saying a lot of nothing, backed up by nothing. 

[Ozanne]

I’ve been following the inquiry for a while, posting updates well before others started to be focussed on it. It seems the people that were angry about having restrictions in the place are now paying attention because if they can attack the inquiry it can lessen the legitimacy of their findings.

[steviewevie]

Looks like border from Gaza to Egypt to allow wounded people out may open, but they didn't want to but has become necessary. Meanwhile Israel drop bombs on a refugee camp full of people because there might be some Hamas tunnels underneath.

[steviewevie]

33 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I’ve been following the inquiry for a while, posting updates well before others started to be focussed on it. It seems the people that were angry about having restrictions in the place are now paying attention because if they can attack the inquiry it can lessen the legitimacy of their findings.

I think the inquiry is all about the state response to covid and improvements that can be made for next time, not whether lockdowns/restrictions/masks were necessary. 

[Ozanne]

4 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I think the inquiry is all about the state response to covid and improvements that can be made for next time, not whether lockdowns/restrictions/masks were necessary. 

Yeah it is but it will include the measures taken by the government and how those measures were enacted. 

[Ryan1984]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

Yeah it is but it will include the measures taken by the government and how those measures were enacted. 

They said on the radio it’s essentially an evaluation of the response and what learnings can be made from it for similar issues going forward. Some of that is embarrassing/horrific for some (where the soap opera element comes in) but in theory it should be a worthwhile exercise.

I’m with Stevie, apart from not being able to see friends and family, lockdown was nice - showed what life could and should be like with the slower pace, time to walk and exercise (for one hour a day), read books, mess around in the sh*t thread on here and being able to hear nature over traffic!

[steviewevie]

16 minutes ago, Ryan1984 said:

They said on the radio it’s essentially an evaluation of the response and what learnings can be made from it for similar issues going forward. Some of that is embarrassing/horrific for some (where the soap opera element comes in) but in theory it should be a worthwhile exercise.

I’m with Stevie, apart from not being able to see friends and family, lockdown was nice - showed what life could and should be like with the slower pace, time to walk and exercise (for one hour a day), read books, mess around in the sh*t thread on here and being able to hear nature over traffic!

I should add I don't think lockdowns are a good thing, for many people they were a nightmare. Just personally I quite liked it.

[Ozanne]

37 minutes ago, Ryan1984 said:

They said on the radio it’s essentially an evaluation of the response and what learnings can be made from it for similar issues going forward. Some of that is embarrassing/horrific for some (where the soap opera element comes in) but in theory it should be a worthwhile exercise.

I’m with Stevie, apart from not being able to see friends and family, lockdown was nice - showed what life could and should be like with the slower pace, time to walk and exercise (for one hour a day), read books, mess around in the sh*t thread on here and being able to hear nature over traffic!

Yeah it is gonna focus on those things I agree, I think they’ll do a fine job and have some good recommendations for future pandemics too. Then again we had recommendations before after Operation Cygnus which were ignored by the Tories!

[philipsteak]

13 hours ago, lost said:

We had a building fire near me recently and someone came around and said there may of been asbestos in the roof and everyone should stay in with windows and doors shut until the all clear was given. I didn't see a single person in the street. I genuinely don't believe people are that f**king stupid.

20+ years of working in public facing roles means I have a very different view on that.

[steviewevie]

😐

[lost]

He's sort of right you watch these videos of streets in LA and San Francisco, all the people on fentanyl do look like zombies. Piccadilly gardens in Manchester looks similar. We used to call them spice zombies at work.

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, lost said:

He's sort of right you watch these videos of streets in LA and San Francisco, all the people on fentanyl do look like zombies. Piccadilly gardens in Manchester looks similar. We used to call them spice zombies at work.

Lol no he isnt. Hes a paranoid lunatic. He means 'Wokeness' when he talks about a mind virus

Edited November 1, 2023 by zahidf

[lost]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

Lol no he isnt. Hes a paranoid lunatic. He means 'Wokeness' when he talks about a mind virus

Makes great cars though.

[steviewevie]

7 minutes ago, lost said:

Makes great cars though.

wish he'd stuck to cars and space.

[steviewevie]