news & politics:discussion

[Ozanne]

45 minutes ago, Neil said:

you lose.

Isn’t that guy a sock account?

[Neil]

[pink_triangle]

3 hours ago, steviewevie said:

As for this 4500 number, it is from 2010 onwards, they are all individual cases and we're never going to know each and every one,  ...would that number be any different if labour were in power? who knows. It is complicated, and not sure just sticking numbers out there helps. So...in the news this week tories brought up the pakistani grooming gangs targetting white girls as if that is the problem and isn't getting sorted because of political correctness...and then labour stick a picture of Sunak on a poster saying he doesn't think anyone assaulting a child should be in prison, he even signed it. And yes tories play dirty, so labour are doing the same...so gloves are off, so we now can't complain when tories come back with even more nasty bullshit about starmer or whatever.  Couldn't labour actually say what they would do to improve things...more police, more convictions, torture, hanging..that would be a surefire election winner if everything is being decided by a few old white voters in midlands and north. 

For all we know the 4500 were detained in secure mental health facilities instead of prison, the devil is in the detail. As you say we won’t know individual cases, but it’s possible trends could be identified in terms of people having light sentences.

I have no doubt in an election campaign labour will have to say what they will do to tackle the problem.

[Ozanne]

3 hours ago, steviewevie said:

going round in circles...but yes crime is a big deal for a lot of people and this week has been crime week with both tories and labour focusing on it. But instead of tough on crime tough on the causes of crime, it just seems to be the tough on crime bit. I get that now target vote in this election seem to be social conservatives...red wall blue wall stevenage woman whatever...but now we just have tories and labour saying same thing..except labour says we're new, and Sunak saying don't trust labour I'll sort it out. As for this 4500 number, it is from 2010 onwards, they are all individual cases and we're never going to know each and every one,  ...would that number be any different if labour were in power? who knows. It is complicated, and not sure just sticking numbers out there helps. So...in the news this week tories brought up the pakistani grooming gangs targetting white girls as if that is the problem and isn't getting sorted because of political correctness...and then labour stick a picture of Sunak on a poster saying he doesn't think anyone assaulting a child should be in prison, he even signed it. And yes tories play dirty, so labour are doing the same...so gloves are off, so we now can't complain when tories come back with even more nasty bullshit about starmer or whatever.  Couldn't labour actually say what they would do to improve things...more police, more convictions, torture, hanging..that would be a surefire election winner if everything is being decided by a few old white voters in midlands and north. 

The thing is Labour do all things you mention, outlining their plans etc yet it still isn’t good enough. People will still pick another imaginary goalpost and slate them for not achieving it. All the while completely ignoring everything wrong the Tories do.

Stop letting the Tories off on everything they do. 

[steviewevie]

I give up.

In my opinion that ad is shit and I wish they hadn't published it 

[LJS]

27 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

For all we know the 4500 were detained in secure mental health facilities instead of prison, the devil is in the detail. As you say we won’t know individual cases, but it’s possible trends could be identified in terms of people having light sentences.

I have no doubt in an election campaign labour will have to say what they will do to tackle the problem.

And outline their plans to build all the new prisons they will need for all the folk they are locking up.

[Neil]

11 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I give up.

In my opinion that ad is shit and I wish they hadn't published it 

I agree, but they need to highlight the areas where they differ from the tories, and crime is quite a major one, because they don't claim all humans can reach levels that their humanity doesn't allow, to claim a moral perfection.

[LJS]

1 hour ago, Neil said:

oh yes he can...

[pink_triangle]

32 minutes ago, LJS said:

And outline their plans to build all the new prisons they will need for all the folk they are locking up.

A tiny proportion of rape claims result in a conviction. I would like (although have no clue how to get there) more convictions. This would result in more people spending time in prison. Does this make me right wing? I would say protecting the vulnerable is a left wing thing, but am told harsher sentencing is a right wing thing, which one is it? 
 

Conversations about how to tackle crime are complex and often led by those who are largely insulated.

[fred quimby]

1 hour ago, Neil said:

Ouch, not a Paul O'Grady fan then. Bit soon though grandad

[cellar]

4 hours ago, Neil said:

you lose.

Aww

[cellar]

4 hours ago, Ozanne said:

Isn’t that guy a sock account?

Classic deflection tactic by someone who knows I'm onto him

[mattiloy]

7 hours ago, steviewevie said:

going round in circles...but yes crime is a big deal for a lot of people and this week has been crime week with both tories and labour focusing on it. But instead of tough on crime tough on the causes of crime, it just seems to be the tough on crime bit. I get that now target vote in this election seem to be social conservatives...red wall blue wall stevenage woman whatever...but now we just have tories and labour saying same thing..except labour says we're new, and Sunak saying don't trust labour I'll sort it out. As for this 4500 number, it is from 2010 onwards, they are all individual cases and we're never going to know each and every one,  ...would that number be any different if labour were in power? who knows. It is complicated, and not sure just sticking numbers out there helps. So...in the news this week tories brought up the pakistani grooming gangs targetting white girls as if that is the problem and isn't getting sorted because of political correctness...and then labour stick a picture of Sunak on a poster saying he doesn't think anyone assaulting a child should be in prison, he even signed it. And yes tories play dirty, so labour are doing the same...so gloves are off, so we now can't complain when tories come back with even more nasty bullshit about starmer or whatever.  Couldn't labour actually say what they would do to improve things...more police, more convictions, torture, hanging..that would be a surefire election winner if everything is being decided by a few old white voters in midlands and north. 

Starmer was also DPP for a lot of that period, partially responsible for sentencing guidelines.

There is a gulf in tonebetween the tory images accusing Labour of not voting for tougher sentencing (which was true) and mocking up an image inferring that Sunak is personally nonce adjacent. Its all a bit Goebbelsy isn’t it.

[Ozanne]

3 hours ago, steviewevie said:

I give up.

In my opinion that ad is shit and I wish they hadn't published it 

The ad isn’t really shit, it’s got a lot of people talking about it and has been shared numerous times. I dare say it’s been quite successful in those regards. 

[pink_triangle]

38 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Starmer was also DPP for a lot of that period, partially responsible for sentencing guidelines.

Don’t the DPP work within parameters set by the government?

[Rufus Gwertigan]

On 4/7/2023 at 12:54 PM, pink_triangle said:

 

To me the big thing in the 4500 is there is no context. I don’t know who these people are and why they didn’t go to jail. It’s difficult to make sound judgement without knowing that information.

 

 

You are right context is everything. Before I had my stroke 10 years back I was studying Forensic Psychology while working as a counsellor with sex offenders. I took a keen interest in the sentencing guidelines as not all offences are equal. The guidelines take many things into account both from the victims side and the offenders. Should an 18 year old go to prison for drunkenly feeling up a 15 year old? ts not for me to say as that is a decision made by the court based on the evidence and reports by the probation service and factors like if the offender pleaded guilty.

I do find it disingenuous of Labour as they fail to mention that those that are sentenced to prison are getting longer terms. Also last year guidelines were changed to allow for prison sentences for attempted assault and even sentences for sexually communicating with an under 16.

[Neil]

1 hour ago, mattiloy said:

responsible for sentencing guidelines.

if starmer was responsible someone will be able to nail him for letting child rapists free in a similar way to how the snp and the Scottish sentencing guidelines have been criticised this week.

[fraybentos1]

4 minutes ago, Neil said:

if starmer was responsible someone will be able to nail him for letting child rapists free in a similar way to how the snp and the Scottish sentencing guidelines have been criticised this week.

I’ve lived in Scotland all my life and met all sorts of people who are obsessed with the snp in one way or another Including many party members. Somehow none are as obsessed as you. It’s all you bang on about Neil 😂 and you live in Bristol! Every 2nd comment is about the snp 

[steviewevie]

24 minutes ago, Neil said:

if starmer was responsible someone will be able to nail him for letting child rapists free in a similar way to how the snp and the Scottish sentencing guidelines have been criticised this week.

be a tory ad in a few days.

[Ozanne]

 

[Rufus Gwertigan]

Have the streets ever been safe?

[pink_triangle]

1 minute ago, Rufus Gwertigan said:

Have the streets ever been safe?

I think it depends where you live. Many on the left who preach about leniency and rehabilitation would run a mile from the most deprived areas of the country. I see people who constantly live on edge living in blocks of flats where alcohol and drug abuse and crime is rampant.  I can completely understand why they favour tougher action on crime.

[Ozanne]

18 minutes ago, Rufus Gwertigan said:

Have the streets ever been safe?

Rishi Sunak doesn’t think they should be 😉

[pink_triangle]

35 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Rishi Sunak doesn’t think they should be 😉

They need to send Rishi out with a taser on some of the roughest streets in the country. Having seen him try to fill up a car with Petrol and use a contactless cash card, what could possibly go wrong!

[Ozanne]

3 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

They need to send Rishi out with a taser on some of the roughest streets in the country. Having seen him try to fill up a car with Petrol and use a contactless cash card, what could possibly go wrong!

PM tases dog.