news & politics:discussion

[pink_triangle]

19 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Ok.. that's all well and good...context etc...but most people don't even get as far as the number 4500 let alone something called context, they just see Rishi Sunak and apparently him signing that he doesn't think child abusers should be locked up. That is it, none of this context bullshit you keep going on about.

The reality is most people don’t see this at all. It’s one of those stories that the majority will miss while they are getting on with their lives. Most of those getting excited on social media have already made up their mind.

Neither those who think it’s great or terrible are showing any interest in the context, both sides are as bad as th other. I say let’s have the debate, labour backup these numbers and explain how many and which should be locked up, conservatives counter why they are wrong. 

 

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

the error is yours ... in thinking they weren't as bad as each other.

This wouldn't have happened under corbyn.

Discuss.

[steviewevie]

Just now, pink_triangle said:

The reality is most people don’t see this at all. It’s one of those stories that the majority will miss while they are getting on with their lives. Most of those getting excited on social media have already made up their mind.

Neither those who think it’s great or terrible are showing any interest in the context, both sides are as bad as th other. I say let’s have the debate, labour backup these numbers and explain how many and which should be locked up, conservatives counter why they are wrong. 

 

If that was true they wouldn't bother with ads. But maybe the hoo-ha helps, no such thing as bad publicity etc. 

[pink_triangle]

14 minutes ago, LJS said:

If what I have read is correct (I have no idea if it is or not) the 4500 date from 2010-2015 when Sunak was a hedge fund manager.

I think that’s correct, but let’s face it the Torys blame in 2023 blame labour for things they have had 13 years to sort out. I see this is Sunak being the figurehead of the government rather than the man signing off on every decision.

[steviewevie]

These will end up being leaflets posted through people's letterboxes, unless hopefully there is a rethink and they change tack 

[Ozanne]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Maybe not..or maybe it was after all the Braverman -

Tommy Robinson stuff that's come before. I just think they need to be careful to not stir this shit up even more, unless they actually want to and they can benefit from it.

He’s the Tory PM so he would be in the front of those posters. If Labour had chosen a random Muslim MP then yeah it would be racist. There is nothing racist about it. 

[Neil]

4 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

This wouldn't have happened under corbyn.

Discuss.

it would: corbyn loved a smear, there's a well documented history of them.

[Neil]

Just now, Neil said:

it would: corbyn loved a smear, there's a well documented history of them.

mostly to his own side. 😛 

[pink_triangle]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

If that was true they wouldn't bother with ads. But maybe the hoo-ha helps, no such thing as bad publicity etc. 

I think it’s part of a strategy about being tough on crime. I think most will have forgotten about the individual poster come election day, but have no doubt the overall strategy to look strong in this area will continue. I see the next election being a fight on the economy, NHS, education and crime. Nobody is talking about small boats on the doorstep.

 

 

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, Neil said:

it would: corbyn loved a smear, there's a well documented history of them.

Nah I don't believe labour would have done this when he was leader.

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I think it’s part of a strategy about being tough on crime. I think most will have forgotten about the individual poster come election day, but have no doubt the overall strategy to look strong in this area will continue. I see the next election being a fight on the economy, NHS, education and crime. Nobody is talking about small boats on the doorstep.

 

 

How do you know no one is talking about small boats? You seen polling somewhere?

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I think it’s part of a strategy about being tough on crime. I think most will have forgotten about the individual poster come election day, but have no doubt the overall strategy to look strong in this area will continue. I see the next election being a fight on the economy, NHS, education and crime. Nobody is talking about small boats on the doorstep.

 

 

And I'm sure it is a strategy, crime, especially anti social stuff, is high up in priorities for a lot of people...hence govt outlawing NOS which is obviously a major problem affecting society. Maybe next they will outlaw teenagers.

Edited April 7, 2023 by steviewevie

[steviewevie]

But whatever. That ad stinks. I thought labour and starmer were better than that, but obviously I'm deluded.

Maybe they'll bring back the immigration mugs.

[Neil]

6 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

And I'm sure it is a strategy, crime, especially anti social stuff, is high up in priorities for a lot of people...hence govt outlawing NOS which is obviously a major problem affecting society. Maybe next they will outlaw teenagers.

Crime is the last point of difference the Tories have with labour. They used to do the same about economic competence - and then there was Liz truss.

[LJS]

44 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Mate come on, don’t be that person. There’s nothing racist about it, he’s the Tory PM that’s all.

You seem like a decent chap, Ozanne.

You telling us you are comfortable with this campaign? If it was your job to approve it for publication,would you have given it the green light?

[pink_triangle]

16 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

And I'm sure it is a strategy, crime, especially anti social stuff, is high up in priorities for a lot of people...hence govt outlawing NOS which is obviously a major problem affecting society. Maybe next they will outlaw teenagers.

Labour have to win an election by building a coalition of voters, that route doesn’t exist with a message about shorter sentences and leniency. However my belief is that a labour government will do a better job in reducing crime by tackling poverty and investing in rehabilitation.

As I have said I am a bit wary about making crime a simplistic right/left issue. Very few of any political persuasion believe nobody convicted or everyone convicted should be in prison, so I think debating where the line is drawn is valid. When it comes to sexual assault there should probably be more convictions as prosecution levels are so low. A higher prosecution rate would result in more people in prison, is it right wing to think this would be good?

[Ozanne]

16 minutes ago, LJS said:

You seem like a decent chap, Ozanne.

You telling us you are comfortable with this campaign? If it was your job to approve it for publication,would you have given it the green light?

Honestly, it doesn’t bother me that much. The Tories do this type of thing so it’s only their own medicine thrown back at them. 

[pink_triangle]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Honestly, it doesn’t bother me that much. The Tories do this type of thing so it’s only their own medicine thrown back at them. 

That’s generally how I feel. Don’t care too much they did it, wouldn’t have been bothered if they didn’t. I don’t think people will be talking about it come the election.

For all the talk about not doing things like the torys, there is no prize for being a good sport and runner up. 
My belief remains that the country will be better served with a Starmer led government. If talking tough on crime helps achieve that then that’s fine by me.

 

[LJS]

Thanks for your honesty guys.

It's ok to be  ckunts because Tories are ckunts.

[pink_triangle]

9 minutes ago, LJS said:

Thanks for your honesty guys.

It's ok to be  ckunts because Tories are ckunts.

I would like to debate whether the 4500 should be in jail or not, but people seem more occupied by the window dressing than potentially 4500 victims. We know there are far more that never get any level of justice.

To be honest I think this is a minor (and quickly forgotten story) and the key question is are you ok with labour going into the next election with a tougher message on crime if it means they can get the votes to form a government. I personally am and I think it is their only route to winning an election and making things better.

[Neil]

The guardian are reporting that vaccines for cancer and heart disease are close and I say before we get there society needs a discussions about if they're something we want because the consequences are huge, long extension of average life - pensions and a frail population.

[cellar]

Ozanne and Steviewevie are the same person.

BET NOW

[steviewevie]

1 hour ago, cellar said:

Ozanne and Steviewevie are the same person.

BET NOW

Disagreeing with ourselves.

[steviewevie]

going round in circles...but yes crime is a big deal for a lot of people and this week has been crime week with both tories and labour focusing on it. But instead of tough on crime tough on the causes of crime, it just seems to be the tough on crime bit. I get that now target vote in this election seem to be social conservatives...red wall blue wall stevenage woman whatever...but now we just have tories and labour saying same thing..except labour says we're new, and Sunak saying don't trust labour I'll sort it out. As for this 4500 number, it is from 2010 onwards, they are all individual cases and we're never going to know each and every one,  ...would that number be any different if labour were in power? who knows. It is complicated, and not sure just sticking numbers out there helps. So...in the news this week tories brought up the pakistani grooming gangs targetting white girls as if that is the problem and isn't getting sorted because of political correctness...and then labour stick a picture of Sunak on a poster saying he doesn't think anyone assaulting a child should be in prison, he even signed it. And yes tories play dirty, so labour are doing the same...so gloves are off, so we now can't complain when tories come back with even more nasty bullshit about starmer or whatever.  Couldn't labour actually say what they would do to improve things...more police, more convictions, torture, hanging..that would be a surefire election winner if everything is being decided by a few old white voters in midlands and north. 

[Neil]

4 hours ago, cellar said:

Ozanne and Steviewevie are the same person.

BET NOW

you lose.