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news & politics:discussion


zahidf

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1 minute ago, Ryan1984 said:

The sad thing is he’d probably still win - and I say this as a fan of Starmer.

Let him try and see what leaks out over the campaign period πŸ˜‰Β 

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The shit reality is that nothing has really changed. Everyone knows he lied about the parties and he won’t resign for moral or integrity reasons.Β 
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Until there is an actual system in place for automatically expelling members of Parliament who lie they will continue to do so.Β 
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Relying on them to do the decent thing isn’t going to happen with this corrupt bunch.Β 

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I thought Sunak might resign given he was already on a bit of a losing streak with all the revelations about his finances piling up before this. Could still yet be something that drags on for a few weeks, maybe even after the local elections if the Tories do badly at them. There does seem to be a degree of denial from some in blue about what's happened here.

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53 minutes ago, charlierc said:

I thought Sunak might resign given he was already on a bit of a losing streak with all the revelations about his finances piling up before this. Could still yet be something that drags on for a few weeks, maybe even after the local elections if the Tories do badly at them. There does seem to be a degree of denial from some in blue about what's happened here.

The local elections feel like make or break for them. Expect lots of culture war stuff over the next couple of weeks. I’m sure the BBC and trans people/the β€˜woke brigade’ will all come in for a bashing.

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8 hours ago, squirrelarmy said:

Convenient for them to be issued while they’re on holiday so won’t get a grilling in the commons tomorrow.Β 
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Are these notices the legal equivalent of a speeding ticket? Although against the law it doesn’t give you a criminal record or are they a higher level.Β 
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Surely it is now absolute proof that the lying twat did lie in Parliament and has to be called out on it.Β 

Yeah the timing fucking stinks. I'm glad it's taken the shine off Sunak even more, but surely that consolidates Boris' position. No one else immediately obvious to replace them. The c**ts just get away with it again.

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7 hours ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Amount of money Sunak has as well, the fine is meaningless. Make him do some kind of community service instead. I'll come and watch.

If the fine was a percentage of income we could have probably had enough money to build a new hospital.Β 

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25 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

We really need a general election.Β 

that's really not going to happen...and even then tories may well win again but likely with a much smaller majority...Bojo will do his war leader thing with lots of pictures of him walking around with the man Zelensky. For labour to have any chance they would need a really clear vision and exciting manifesto showing how they could improve things...maybe it could be done...and tories are kind of in a total shambles at moment...and I'm kind of changing my mind as I write this...

Don't labour need about a 10 point lead to have just a one seat majority?

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Would an election fix inflation anyway? Firstly despite the reason changing monthly from covid supply chain disruptions to war etc.. we all know the damage was really done by the money printing in lockdown. Now to get it under control its the BOE's remit and as Rachel Reeves is ex-BOE I can't see her coming in and forcing a different strategy on them.Β 

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23 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

that's really not going to happen...and even then tories may well win again but likely with a much smaller majority...Bojo will do his war leader thing with lots of pictures of him walking around with the man Zelensky. For labour to have any chance they would need a really clear vision and exciting manifesto showing how they could improve things...maybe it could be done...and tories are kind of in a total shambles at moment...and I'm kind of changing my mind as I write this...

Don't labour need about a 10 point lead to have just a one seat majority?

Obviously it’s not, but we do really need one. Stop buying into the PR shots, we have a criminal in No 10 and need an opportunity to vote him out.Β 

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16 minutes ago, lost said:

Would an election fix inflation anyway? Firstly despite the reason changing monthly from covid supply chain disruptions to war etc.. we all know the damage was really done by the money printing in lockdown. Now to get it under control its the BOE's remit and as Rachel Reeves is ex-BOE I can't see her coming in and forcing a different strategy on them.Β 

no, an election wouldn't fix inflation in short term, it is hitting countries everywhere...but it could change how economy looks in the future. I guess the argument is where Johnson's govt taking us...by all accounts he likes to spend and sees how levelling up and net zero are important, but they are a divided party on all this with some still believing in more thatcherite policies like Sunak, and others believing in more state interventions like Johnson. Problem for labour at moment is where do they stand on all this...how are they going to deal with the many problems this countryΒ already has and will have as we move away from fossil fuels? Big questions require a big vision.

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26 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Depressingly I think the Tories would still win.Β 

If there was an election now, I don't think they would actually. I think the Tories have underestimated the anger in the country over this.Β 

If there was a change in leadership, maybe they would, but I think they are hoping that the British public will forget all about it in 2 years time. Any opposition worth it's salt will try to make sure that doesn't happen.

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59 minutes ago, Punksnotdead said:

Any opposition worth it's salt will try to make sure that doesn't happen.

I’m going to be interesting in watching Starmer cross examining Spaffer now that’s he got a conviction on record.Β 

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21 minutes ago, Justiceforcedave said:

As the days pass I get more and more confused with the "Yeah but Labour aren't offering an electable alternative" narrative. Wtf do the Conservatives have to do, in order for ANY other party to be a better alternative? Shoot a baby? Fire a nuke?

yeah, it is unfair...but labour have to offer a decent alternative to persuade a lot of people to vote for them, the electoral map and press just favours the tories. In the end, a lot of people still love boris because of brexit, and they don't trust labour with the economy/crime/defence/monarchy etc...although inevitably Ozanne will post some polls showing that labour are currently ahead of the tories on most of this. Labour are definitely doing better these days with all this partygate and cost of living stuff...but is it enough to win an election, not sure.

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14 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

The news needs to be asking similar questions to people who voted Tory...Β  the ones who don't vote Tory are kind of irrelevant.Β 

It’s hard to find a Tory voter to interview who they can broadcast before the watershed.Β 

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53 minutes ago, Justiceforcedave said:

As the days pass I get more and more confused with the "Yeah but Labour aren't offering an electable alternative" narrative. Wtf do the Conservatives have to do, in order for ANY other party to be a better alternative? Shoot a baby? Fire a nuke?

I’ve no idea why Johnson has this effect on people. The mental gymnastics some people go through to defend is staggering. He’s tarnishing the Office of PM and the country.Β 

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    • Ah, well. Never mind, hey.
    • In August 2009, in hisΒ SpectatorΒ blog he wrote aboutΒ Harriet Harman, deputy leader of the Labour Party, in unflattering terms. Liddle began the article by asking: "So β€” Harriet Harman, then. Would you? I mean after a few beers obviously, not while you were sober."[27]Β Tanya GoldΒ wrote inΒ The GuardianΒ that Liddle had delivered a "tissue-thin polemic." Pointing out that it wasΒ The Spectator's cover story that week.[28]Β Rachel CookeΒ inΒ The ObserverΒ nearly two months later recalled finding Liddle's piece "disgusting"[29]Β Cooke went on to say: "I would still like to do something really unpleasant to the man who wrote [the article]." Liddle said two months later that the Harman column "was supposed to be a parody of guttural, base sexism", a joke he assumed readers would understand. After the negative response from Gold (and then Cooke, among other female journalists) he continued: "And then I suppose I came to the conclusion – gradually – that I must have got it wrong."[30]Β In June 2014, he said that of those he had offended, Harman was the one person to whom he would apologise.[31] In November 2009, again forΒ The SpectatorΒ website, he offered "a quick update on what the Muslim savages are up to," a brief article about the stoning to death of a 20-year-old woman in Somalia after she was accused of adultery, and the similar death of a 13-year-old the year before. He made remarks, considered sarcastic, that read: "Incidentally, many Somalis have come to Britain as immigrants recently, where they are widely admired for their strong work ethic, respect for the law and keen, piercing, intelligence."[32][33] In December 2009, on hisΒ SpectatorΒ blog, Liddle referred to two black music producers, Brandon Jolie and Kingsley Ogundele, who had plotted to kill Jolie's 15-year-old pregnant girlfriend, as "human filth" and said the incident was not an anomaly. He continued: When he was accused of racism, Liddle said he was instead engaging in a debate aboutΒ multiculturalism.[35][36]Β In March 2010 theΒ Press Complaints CommissionΒ (PCC) upheld a complaint against Liddle, who became the first journalist to be censured over the contents of a blog, because he had not been able to prove his claim about the crime statistics.[37]Β After the publication of London crime figures in June 2010,Β The Sunday TelegraphΒ suggested Liddle was largely right on some of his claims, but that he was probably wrong on his claims about knife crimes and violent sex crimes.[38] In October 2010, Liddle called for the abolition of theΒ Welsh languageΒ TV channelΒ S4CΒ as a result of the 2010 Comprehensive Spending Review. In his article forΒ The Spectator, he described Welsh nationalists as "miserable, seaweed munching, sheep-bothering pinch-faced hill-tribes".[39] On 23 May 2013, Liddle wrote about the murder of soldierΒ Lee RigbyΒ near theΒ Royal Artillery BarracksΒ in Woolwich, London. In the original version of a blog article forΒ The Spectator, he referred to the perpetrators as "two black savages".[40]Β After many objections to his language use,[41]Β this phrase was modified.[42]Β Liddle apologised.[40][43] Giving a speech atΒ Durham UniversityΒ in December 2021, Liddle said: "It is fairly easily proven that colonialism is not remotely the major cause of Africa's problems, just as it is very easy to prove that the educational underachievement of British people of Caribbean descent or African Americans is nothing to do with institutional or structural racism."[44] IndependentΒ editor rumour and Millwall supporters' website The GuardianΒ reported on 8 January 2010 that the expected purchase ofΒ The IndependentΒ byΒ Alexander Lebedev, a Russian billionaire, would be followed by the appointment of Liddle as editor.[45]Β Roy GreensladeΒ wrote on 11 January that the reports were provoking a "major internal and external revolt" byΒ The Independent's staff and readers.[46]Β The stories about Liddle's posts on Millwall Online apparently further reduced the likelihood of his being offered the job.[47]Β Finally, on 19 February, Stephen Brook ofΒ The GuardianΒ reported that Liddle was no longer in the running for the post.[48]Β Tim Luckhurst, professor of journalism at theΒ University of Kent, argued that Liddle's prospects of editingΒ The IndependentΒ were nullified "by the people behind a viciously intolerant campaign of liberal bigotry".[49] In January 2010, the press drew attention to allegedly racist and misogynist comments posted under the username "monkeymfc"β€”a name Liddle has usedβ€”on Millwall Online, a fan club web forum with no official connection toΒ Millwall Football Club. Liddle attributed some of the comments to opposition fans logging in under his name to embarrass him. He later said he had written some of the posts that were being criticised, including one in support of the BNP excluding Black and Asian people from the party.[50]Β Another post, in which he joked about not being able to smoke atΒ Auschwitz,[51]Β led to his being asked to explain what he meant inΒ The Jewish Chronicle.[47]Β While he said in June 2014 that his comments were taken out of context, he said that he did not regret making them. "No. Never. Absolutely not. I thought about my mates at Millwall Online, God I respect them so much more than these other people, these ghastly f**king people."[31] Stephen Lawrence, disabled and transgender people In November 2011, an article by Liddle forΒ The SpectatorΒ suggested the trial of two men accused (and later convicted) of murderingΒ Stephen LawrenceΒ would not be fair.[52]Β It was referred to the Attorney GeneralΒ Dominic GrieveΒ by the judge for possible contempt of court,[53]Β and he ordered the jurors not to read it. Having decided that it might have breached a court order, Grieve passed the case on to theΒ Crown Prosecution ServiceΒ and the Director of Public Prosecutions.[54]Β The decision thatΒ The SpectatorΒ was to be prosecuted by the CPS for breaching reporting restrictions was announced on 9 May 2012, with a court hearing scheduled for 7 June, although Liddle as the author was not himself liable for prosecution.Β Fraser Nelson, the magazine's editor, announced that the prosecution would not be contested,[55]Β and the magazine pleaded guilty at the hearing. The fine was Β£3,000, plus Β£2,000 compensation to Stephen Lawrence's parents and Β£625 costs.[56] In January 2012, Liddle wrote that many people in the UK were "pretending to be disabled" in his column forΒ The Sun,[57]Β an opinion defended byΒ James Delingpole.[58]Β Frances Ryan inΒ The GuardianΒ accused him of "belittling something that on a daily basis affects real people" who can be "a huge benefit to society. Maybe for a month Liddle would like to try that."[59] In May 2015, theΒ Independent Press Standards OrganisationΒ (IPSO) upheld a complaint fromΒ Trans Media WatchΒ that Liddle had been discriminatory towardsΒ Emily Brothers, a blind andΒ transgenderΒ Labour candidate at theΒ 2015 general election, in twoΒ SunΒ columns published in December 2014 and January 2015. In commenting in the way he had Liddle had breached two sections of the editors' code.[60][61] Column on poppers and gay sex During aΒ parliamentary debateΒ on the Psychoactive Substances Bill – which "makes it an offence to produce, supply, offer to supply, possess with intent to supply, possess on custodial premises, import or exportΒ psychoactive substances"[65]Β theΒ ConservativeΒ politicianΒ Crispin BluntΒ admitted he usedΒ poppers: Liddle responded in hisΒ SpectatorΒ blog: TheΒ satiricalΒ andΒ current affairsΒ magazineΒ Private EyeΒ described this as hypocritical, pointing out Liddle's account inΒ The Sunday TimesΒ of usingΒ ViagraΒ in July 2004.[68][69] A spokesperson from theΒ LGBT rightsΒ charityΒ StonewallΒ said of Liddle's remarks: "Comments like this are shocking and damaging, but we wouldn't expect anything less from repeat offending bigots like Rod Liddle."[70] Column on Muslim voters In October 2019, Liddle penned a column inΒ The SpectatorΒ commenting on the forthcomingΒ December 2019 UK general election, which suggested that the election should be held on a Muslim holy day to reduce the Labour vote. The column was criticised by senior political figures including Chancellor of the ExchequerΒ Sajid JavidΒ and former ConservativeΒ Deputy Prime MinisterΒ David Lidington. Liddle defended the content as being humorous. The article also criticised the Labour MPΒ Rosie Duffield's recent speech about her experience of trying to exit an abusive relationship; Duffield described the article as "racist and misogynistic".[74]
    • A true social democrat
    • I thought the same thing I thought when Baresi went which is there sure is a hell of alot of people who don't make the new pension age.
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