Zoo Music Girl Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, Yoghurt on a Stick said: In that case, I would need to know why you found the performance offensive? I thought it pleasingly dramatical, as well as musically and lyrically 'sound'. I am comparing it on the performance alone though, I will admit. Other areas of MJ's life may have been sordid - I don't know if they were or weren't. He was positioning himself as some kind of Jesus figure with all these children kissing his feet. It was overblown, self important tripe from another era. Needed taking down a peg or two. And the song is shit enough to be offensive on its own to my mind. All again just my opinion! Edit to say it is of course over 20 years since I've seen it (yikes) so this is from memory. Edited August 8, 2018 by Zoo Music Girl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Music Girl Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 5 hours ago, marcoolio said: Haha, the only reason I downvoted was because someone had upvoted it and I felt that was a bit too much honor. I hadn't realised the board is showing upvotes separately from downvotes now. It probably makes the downvote look more harsh than I intended. Sorry SMG. Ha no worries at all! Probably well deserved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoghurt on a Stick Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 15 hours ago, marcoolio said: Haha, the only reason I downvoted was because someone had upvoted it and I felt that was a bit too much honor. I hadn't realised the board is showing upvotes separately from downvotes now. It probably makes the downvote look more harsh than I intended. Sorry SMG. Hello marcclio, If you are a Gold Member, it allows you to see who has upvoted or down voted. At least, I think that's the case. I can certainly see these things, but was a little bit pissed / stoned yesterday and clicked on the wrong button. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoghurt on a Stick Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 11 hours ago, ian the worm said: Of course there are there time slots for each act. Especially on TV where things are timed to the second. But yes, why not have the odd special surprise guest on stage, like Live Aid or the legends slot. Jarvis was breaking definitely the “rules”, but in this case support that breaking. I’ve often jumped on stages to “add” to a performance. But surprise guests are actually scheduled in. I'm sure that you may have jumped on stage to add to a performance, but the question is 'was that accepted as a good thing by the performers and the audience'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoghurt on a Stick Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 10 hours ago, Zoo Music Girl said: He was positioning himself as some kind of Jesus figure with all these children kissing his feet. It was overblown, self important tripe from another era. Needed taking down a peg or two. And the song is shit enough to be offensive on its own to my mind. All again just my opinion! Edit to say it is of course over 20 years since I've seen it (yikes) so this is from memory. I get the positioning himself as a Jesus figure, but that in itself could be self parody on his behalf. I can't remember children kissing his feet, so will have another look. Even if they did, we get back to the notion that it could have been self parody. I doubt it very much, but have no proof, that Michael Jackson actually thought himself as some sort of deity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananaslug Posted August 8, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 (edited) Here's the whole fiasco. Full performance plus the Jarvis bit. Lol Watch til the end. The entire MJ performance is cringeworthy. Gets more so as it goes on. Jarvis was hilarious and a breeze of fresh air to an otherwise awkward, disturbing performance. I get the feeling from other interviews I've heard by other artists, etc that many werent thrilled with MJs performance and didnt sound like many wanted him there to begin with. Not sure if there's more to a backstory on that part or not. Edited August 8, 2018 by Bananaslug 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohinever Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 5 hours ago, Yoghurt on a Stick said: I get the positioning himself as a Jesus figure, but that in itself could be self parody on his behalf. I can't remember children kissing his feet, so will have another look. Even if they did, we get back to the notion that it could have been self parody. I doubt it very much, but have no proof, that Michael Jackson actually thought himself as some sort of deity. The self parody bit. Definitely could have been. I know for an absolute fact that MJ once road on a London bus impersonating a MJ impersonator (and have a photo to prove it). Best bit was when a bloke approached him to tell him although he had the "look", he had to "work on the voice because you sound absolutely nothing like him". Cue much merriment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelsBeard Posted August 8, 2018 Report Share Posted August 8, 2018 Met him twice. Nice guy. Also once met his mum at the VIP tower at Leeds Festival. She was wearing a ‘Pulp AAA’ badge so I was making small talk about the band etc - didn’t realise who I was speaking to until my mate pointed it out afterwards and I felt a bit of a dick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoghurt on a Stick Posted August 9, 2018 Report Share Posted August 9, 2018 8 hours ago, Bananaslug said: Here's the whole fiasco. Full performance plus the Jarvis bit. Lol Watch til the end. The entire MJ performance is cringeworthy. Gets more so as it goes on. Jarvis was hilarious and a breeze of fresh air to an otherwise awkward, disturbing performance. I get the feeling from other interviews I've heard by other artists, etc that many werent thrilled with MJs performance and didnt sound like many wanted him there to begin with. Not sure if there's more to a backstory on that part or not. I don't get what you are saying, at all. Not sure if the audience was made up of other artists, or not, but I get the impression that they were all for it, watching that video. No kissing of feet, nothing. Just a Master performer doing what others could only dream of doing. Don't get me wrong, I like Jarvis Cocker and Pulp, but he actually looks like a knob head to me in that footage. Definitely lost cool points in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Music Girl Posted August 9, 2018 Report Share Posted August 9, 2018 Okay I accept there was no literal kissing of feet (read that here, apologies: https://www.radiox.co.uk/artists/pulp/news/why-did-jarvis-cocker-moon-michael-jackson-brits/ ) but there was plenty of other stuff to turn your stomach having just rewatched it. Load of old dogshit. Not sure he was capable of self parody at this point but if it was one it wasn't very funny! Going to have to agree to disagree on this one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananaslug Posted August 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2018 No way was that MJ self parodying. He did that kind of crap all the time. He was definitely being serious. Creepy as hell. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoghurt on a Stick Posted August 9, 2018 Report Share Posted August 9, 2018 OK, no problems agreeing to disagree on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eFestivals Posted August 9, 2018 Report Share Posted August 9, 2018 55 minutes ago, Bananaslug said: No way was that MJ self parodying. He did that kind of crap all the time. He was definitely being serious. Creepy as hell. this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesecretingredientiscrime Posted August 9, 2018 Report Share Posted August 9, 2018 The irony is Jarv comes off as the one who thinks he’s Jesus like. Deciding someone can’t be on stage and it’s his job to save everyone from evil by making his presence known. I’ll always be a Jarvis fan but the reality is, millions of people will have been waiting for that performance, and he’s taken it upon himself to ruin it. MJ barely ever did those type of tv performances before, and I don’t think he did very much after, and it’s hardly a surprise if that’s what’s going to happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoghurt on a Stick Posted August 9, 2018 Report Share Posted August 9, 2018 11 minutes ago, thesecretingredientiscrime said: The irony is Jarv comes off as the one who thinks he’s Jesus like. Deciding someone can’t be on stage and it’s his job to save everyone from evil by making his presence known. I’ll always be a Jarvis fan but the reality is, millions of people will have been waiting for that performance, and he’s taken it upon himself to ruin it. MJ barely ever did those type of tv performances before, and I don’t think he did very much after, and it’s hardly a surprise if that’s what’s going to happen. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian the worm Posted August 9, 2018 Report Share Posted August 9, 2018 I’ve ust watched the video and am struggling to hold my self together for my afternoon of training others. Firstly Jacko was amazing in this. Pure genius and ego. Massive skills and the world wide star. I remember watching this thinking he was ace and also I liked the song. Pure class. Jarvis was great too at knocking the edge off I had forgotten that Jacko was on the cherry picker and had to watch it from there. Security were shit and Jarvis managed to get back on stage at the back. It’s so funny that he didn’t plan much expect probably the timings as he would have seen the rehursals earlier that day. in short, both were great and the fact that an Internet forum is still split in this 22 years late shows what an impact get both had 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoghurt on a Stick Posted August 9, 2018 Report Share Posted August 9, 2018 I've just been thinking (it happens!) about this further - nobody seems to mind about extravagant musicals eg Jesus Christ Super Star etc. What MJ did was no better than performances that are on in the West End right now. In my opinion, his performance was just Showmanship, and nothing sinister, and that Jarvis Cocker (same initials as Jesus Christ) had no right to do what he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quark Posted August 9, 2018 Report Share Posted August 9, 2018 Factoid - Jarvis was accompanied to the police station and supported by Bob Mortimer in his capacity as a qualified solicitor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoghurt on a Stick Posted August 9, 2018 Report Share Posted August 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Quark said: Factoid - Jarvis was accompanied to the police station and supported by Bob Mortimer in his capacity as a qualified solicitor. He was taken to a police station after the MJ performance thing!!? On what grounds? That's mental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohinever Posted August 9, 2018 Report Share Posted August 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Quark said: Factoid - Jarvis was accompanied to the police station and supported by Bob Mortimer in his capacity as a qualified solicitor. Top factoid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quark Posted August 9, 2018 Report Share Posted August 9, 2018 46 minutes ago, Yoghurt on a Stick said: He was taken to a police station after the MJ performance thing!!? On what grounds? That's mental. I believe there was a question over whether there was technically any form of assault on the kids on stage. Nothing came from it. 47 minutes ago, Ohinever said: Top factoid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eFestivals Posted August 9, 2018 Report Share Posted August 9, 2018 3 hours ago, thesecretingredientiscrime said: The irony is Jarv comes off as the one who thinks he’s Jesus like. that certainly wasn't popular opinion at the time. It was this that turned Jarv into a national treasure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eFestivals Posted August 9, 2018 Report Share Posted August 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Yoghurt on a Stick said: I've just been thinking (it happens!) about this further - nobody seems to mind about extravagant musicals eg Jesus Christ Super Star etc. What MJ did was no better than performances that are on in the West End right now. In my opinion, his performance was just Showmanship, and nothing sinister, and that Jarvis Cocker (same initials as Jesus Christ) had no right to do what he did. it's worth pointing out that this performance happened when the kiddie fiddler allegations were flying high (tho perhaps not at their highest, I forget). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eFestivals Posted August 9, 2018 Report Share Posted August 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Yoghurt on a Stick said: He was taken to a police station after the MJ performance thing!!? On what grounds? That's mental. wiki says: Cocker was detained and interviewed by the police on suspicion of assault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Music Girl Posted August 9, 2018 Report Share Posted August 9, 2018 13 minutes ago, eFestivals said: it's worth pointing out that this performance happened when the kiddie fiddler allegations were flying high (tho perhaps not at their highest, I forget). It was smack bang between the two incidents - the first accusations were in 1993 (which he settled out of court) and the trial for the second accusations (for which he was acquitted) started in 2003. I don't just know this off the top of my head; I googled as I was genuinely interested! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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