Thoughts go out to those in Berlin

[Cornelius_Fudge]

On 07/01/2017 at 10:36 AM, arcade fireman said:

....aaand now this:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/edited-1038-headline-works-well-a7512636.html%3Famp?client=safari

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.foxnews.com/world/2017/01/04/german-police-slam-reports-new-years-migrant-violence.amp.html?client=safari

Be clear: this isn't to say people who are Muslims haven't actually done some terrible things or that the other stories are false. A lot of stories are factually correct.

This is about YOU. Being a far right bigoted fuckwit of minimal intelligence who uses Breitbart and fucking people who have edited Breitbart as credible sources of information on Islam.

And you have the fucking nerve to tell others about "credible sources" whilst repeatedly citing fake news as an argument (not to mention all the other shit you made up e.g. about stoning, Afghanistan etc). 

 

 

 

This is about me? Did I drive a lorry in the name of God in to a crowd of Christmas shoppers just so I could start this thread?

It always amazes me and it says a lot more about you about how excited you get. People get more angry about someone making a mistake on a message forum than actual ideological violence.

The first time I saw that was on my Facebook feed in a German news group and I admit I didn't check it before writing about it. I didn't see it from Breitbart though, so you can keep your charming language to yourself before you burst a blood vessel over your keyboard and tube sock.

It's surprises me though how angry you get about me making a mistake - as if one small mistake makes all the stuff I've said untrue.

I stand by my Afghanistan stance though

Like I said to the other guy, check the debates and if you have one for me too, then perhaps we can have a constructive conversation instead of you vomiting up a clumsy message on eFestivals.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Cornelius_Fudge

[JSmurphy]

Well this thread took an unexpected turn. Those last few pages have made for a very interesting read though. 

[guypjfreak]

2 hours ago, Cornelius_Fudge said:

Oh my good God. Now the Alt-right invented the word 'cuck'. That's... weird... During this thread I've been told not to use the pronoun 'we' and also apparently because I used the word cuck, I'm an alt-Right member - again, a term I don't think you could define even after you looked it up  *just a joke*. I also happen to notice that there's a clear link between Islam and violence and I explain it rationally and I'm suddenly racist, bigoted, blah blah blah. I've never said white people are better than anyone, or that we're a superior race - people should be allowed to criticise ideas quite freely and I think some people in this thread certainly have some weird hypocritical notions about what words actually mean. I'm the one standing up for moderate Muslims, standing up for homosexuals, standing up for women - by calling the violence out and analysing something as the root of that.

Which is a side note on your psyche actually. A person mentions the word 'cuck' and I'm suddenly a dark, shadowy, alt-Right member. But...12 people die because of radical Islam and you think there's zero link to Islam (and/or others did, I can't be bothered to re-find everything little thing you've/others have said now). That's called the 'No true Scotsman' excuse anyway, saying they're not real Muslims. By saying that they're no real Muslims means every time someone does something bad in the name of Muslim you can just dismiss them as not being the true believers - it's patronizing, wrong, time wasting, garbage. And it is an excuse and you and others adhere to it a lot. Some people on here were claiming there was zero connection between the incidents and the religion. It's just such a time waste. And it's people like you and others who continue to deny that there's a problem, which is the original focus of this debate, is strengthening the extreme Right. It's happening in the UK, France, Austria, Germany.

But to shout people down because they do notice the patterns; it's typical extreme Left bullshit waffle.

Your go to guy is Reza Aslan? The man who lies about his degrees and repeatedly lies on camera that he's an expert?!  That's your man?! No amount of emoji's can do justice to my belly aching. That guy gets repeatedly torn to shreds for his beliefs and his 'expertise'.

You'd prefer to let your imaginary daughter grow up in Russia?! Wow, okay... whatever you say there chief.

I built my argument because you made a straw man claim that I'd said they had brought 'rape' to the UK/Europe, which is not exactly what I said and nowhere near as sinister as you made out. You just twisted my words. But I did produce data to show more non-Germans had committed crimes including sexual assaults, rape, murder, down to pick-pocketing and graffiti.

http://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/Pressemitteilungen/DE/2016/05/pks-und-pmk-2015.html

Again, there's plenty of facts I have given (and you can easily find the data yourself at a click of the finger) -

Swedish rapes have risen in correlation quite clearly with the rise of immigration that now it ranks as one of the worst places for women in Europe to walk home at night.
As well as the German statistics that immigrants (it says specifically immigrants and refuegees) have caused a higher amount of crime than native Germans.
All of the oppression of women stuff - which comes in the Koran and also in all of the majority Muslim countries - even if you think that covering a woman's face is a sign of oppression (not because the act itself is oppressive, but the fact she has to).
There's at least 50 no go zones in Sweden, roughly along the lines of immigrant areas.

Not to mention all the research done by PEW Research - and yes before you mention it some Conservative groups have quoted them too, but don't let that scare you off of accepting the statistics.

Now, you can play the social economical card, say it's all because of a poor/rich divide, because they're uneducated, or however else you'd like to excuse the behaviour, but for me it's clear. Some religions are more violent and oppressive than others. And please no more IRA bullshit either. They've killed a minuscule amount of people in comparison and it was a war about republicanism.

I'd recommend the following debates (for anyone reading this as well) as believe it or not, I don't have all the time on the world to keep debating things on here as much as it looks like I do and it would also allow everyone to get on with music chat which I suppose is the purpose of this site

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMraxhd9Z9Q&t=2731s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh34Xsq7D_A&t=3398s

https://youtu.be/Q4Vlc5u46PA

 

If you happen to have any debates that are interesting too for myself, where you think you could enlighten me, I'm all for it, and also write a final rebuttal if you would like, but watch the videos, send me some videos and we can both try an enlighten ourselves/or not.

Bloody hell that's a bit of mouth fall old son.. 

[arcade fireman]

On 8 January 2017 at 6:29 PM, Cornelius_Fudge said:

Oh my good God. Now the Alt-right invented the word 'cuck'. That's... weird... During this thread I've been told not to use the pronoun 'we' and also apparently because I used the word cuck, I'm an alt-Right member - again, a term I don't think you could define even after you looked it up  *just a joke*. I also happen to notice that there's a clear link between Islam and violence and I explain it rationally and I'm suddenly racist, bigoted, blah blah blah. I've never said white people are better than anyone, or that we're a superior race - people should be allowed to criticise ideas quite freely and I think some people in this thread certainly have some weird hypocritical notions about what words actually mean. I'm the one standing up for moderate Muslims, standing up for homosexuals, standing up for women - by calling the violence out and analysing something as the root of that.

 

The alt right absolutely did popularise the word "cuck", this is well documented. The original word cuckold was an old English word which people barely used for years.

http://www.gq.com/story/why-angry-white-men-love-calling-people-cucks

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-pol-alt-right-terminology-20161115-story.html

http://www.ibtimes.com/what-cuck-origin-insult-alt-right-white-nationalists-who-support-trump-2451694

Literally put in "cuck" into google and you get nothing but things about the alt-right. The word is not in the Oxford English Dictionary. So yes, it is the language of the alt-right. Proved conclusively.

Yes there's a link between Islam and violence. 

There's also a link between Christianity and violence, indeed the Bible has been found to be more violent both from an academic viewpoint (from Philip Jenkins, someone with far more academic qualifications on this than your four mates):

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124494788

And from a pure text analysis too:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/violence-more-common-in-bible-than-quran-text-analysis-reveals-a6863381.html

There is however currently a bigger link between people using the violent parts of the Koran than there is for the violent parts of the Bible or any other holy book. If not the texts, then what? And why did most of the 20th century go by with only a few Islamic terror attacks until the 90s? Did Islam change? Or did in fact geopolitical factors shape the picture massively? 

You continually reject it is not down to an interpretation issue. But clearly there are massive differences between the way Islam is interpreted. All of these are Muslim countries: Turkey, Saudi, Senegal, Jordan, Pakistan, Malaysia, Kazakhstan. Do you think they're all basically the same in the way Islam is interpreted and carried out by its people? Or do you think there's in fact massive differences between how Islam is interpreted in practice? To paint the Muslim world as one homogenised entity as you keep doing is idiotic and ignorant. 

You're standing up for moderate Muslims. Sure By blaming their religion for more rapes in Europe without any evidence.

Quote

Which is a side note on your psyche actually. A person mentions the word 'cuck' and I'm suddenly a dark, shadowy, alt-Right member. But...12 people die because of radical Islam and you think there's zero link to Islam (and/or others did, I can't be bothered to re-find everything little thing you've/others have said now). That's called the 'No true Scotsman' excuse anyway, saying they're not real Muslims. By saying that they're no real Muslims means every time someone does something bad in the name of Muslim you can just dismiss them as not being the true believers - it's patronizing, wrong, time wasting, garbage. And it is an excuse and you and others adhere to it a lot. Some people on here were claiming there was zero connection between the incidents and the religion. It's just such a time waste. And it's people like you and others who continue to deny that there's a problem, which is the original focus of this debate, is strengthening the extreme Right. It's happening in the UK, France, Austria, Germany.

You use a word which has conclusively shown to have been popularised by the alt-Right, yes it's legitimate to link you to that movement. 

I claim there's zero link to Islam?

I have REPEATEDLY said there is a link to Islam. I have said this to about every single post you've said this, and yet you still keep on building straw men. 

I continue to deny there's a problem? Let me just quote something I said:

Quote

 I am saying Islamic terrorism is a real problem, that plenty of Muslim countries have abhorrent records on human rights, that the Koran like other holy books has some poisonous stuff in. 

Have you noticed how you keep on inventing things I've supposedly said when I've said the opposite? This is called straw man building and it's done by people who are losing the argument. 

Quote

Your go to guy is Reza Aslan? The man who lies about his degrees and repeatedly lies on camera that he's an expert?!  That's your man?! No amount of emoji's can do justice to my belly aching. That guy gets repeatedly torn to shreds for his beliefs and his 'expertise'.

Reza Aslan has FAR more qualifications on this than all of the people you've cited put together. This is demonstrably true. Please, list all the qualifications on religion which your supposed "experts" that you've named have. 

You don't seem to be particularly academic, but I will leave this here:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/accordingtomatthew/2015/08/stop-calling-reza-aslan-a-fraud-and-learn-how-academia-works/

It is 100% verifiable that Aslan holds a Master's in Theology from Harvard. His PhD tutor has debunked this idea he "lied about his degrees". If you honestly think someone who edited Breitbart and has no religious qualifications is more of an expert than Aslan your ignorance is beyond words. 

Quote

 

I built my argument because you made a straw man claim that I'd said they had brought 'rape' to the UK/Europe, which is not exactly what I said and nowhere near as sinister as you made out. You just twisted my words. But I did produce data to show more non-Germans had committed crimes including sexual assaults, rape, murder, down to pick-pocketing and graffiti.

http://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/Pressemitteilungen/DE/2016/05/pks-und-pmk-2015.html

Again, there's plenty of facts I have given (and you can easily find the data yourself at a click of the finger) -

Swedish rapes have risen in correlation quite clearly with the rise of immigration that now it ranks as one of the worst places for women in Europe to walk home at night.
As well as the German statistics that immigrants (it says specifically immigrants and refuegees) have caused a higher amount of crime than native Germans.
All of the oppression of women stuff - which comes in the Koran and also in all of the majority Muslim countries - even if you think that covering a woman's face is a sign of oppression (not because the act itself is oppressive, but the fact she has to).
There's at least 50 no go zones in Sweden, roughly along the lines of immigrant areas.

 

So you're using "immigrants" interchangeably with Muslims?! My god, you are stupid. You do realise...plenty...of immigrants....aren't Muslim?!

There are the British figures I posted earlier which specifically look at the ethnicity of the perpetrators (even then too broad but at least a little more specific) and show these have barely changed. Still you ignore these. 

Since you accuse me of building straw men, I will quote you directly:

Quote

he dead in Paris, the dead in Nice, the raped women in Sweden...

I don't even know where to start with your Swedish claims. They're so demonstrably stupid it's untrue.

Firstly, again, you're talking about immigration in general. But even if you were, it still makes no sense. 

Are you familiar with the phrase "correlation doesn't mean causation?". I don't suppose you are.

There is a fantastic website which demonstrates your logical idiocy far better than words ever could:

http://tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

There's also a great article on the ground which quotes a criminologist at Stockholm University (you see, it's good to get actual experts on their field rather than just Breitbart editors) also completely debunking this:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/swedens-rape-crisis-isnt-what-it-seems/article30019623/

Since you accuse me of using straw men, this was the thing you actually said. You were directly linking the immigration of Muslims to Europe with increased rapes in Europe. Which you have zero actual evidence for. Just a correlation between increased immigrants and rapes. This is about as flimsy evidence as it's possible to get.

Quote

If you're so sure about your theory that everything is fine and lovely and there's no problem in all of these Muslim majority countries that clearly have a lot of human rights violations to be found, perhaps you could explain to me why terrorism and rape has risen so much in Europe in the last few twenty years? Is it because problems and practices and religion from the Middle East has started becoming more common in Europe?

Oh and this "no-go" myth has been debunked by the Swedish authorities:

http://www.thelocal.se/20160923/embassy-no-go-zones-do-not-exist-in-sweden-hungary

Indeed, if you type in "sweden no go areas" into google, the only results are from RT, the Mail, Express, Breitbart, Jihadwatch and various other right wing lunatic organisations. Why don't even any politically neutral reputable sites carry this story? Why not even moderately right wing ones like The Times? What does that tell you about the sources you use?!  

Swedish police drew up a list of 55 areas where, and I quote: "local criminal networks are considered to have a negative impact on the local society" and where the police have once or multiple times felt insecure doing their job".

This is NOT the same as a "no go area". Don't you see how you're just making up shit you read on right wing websites and don't even seem to critically analyse whether these things are actually true?

So no, you're not arguing "rationally" like you claim.

You've claimed to have "credible sources" whilst using fake news articles.

You've claimed Muslim immigration is down to rape rising in Europe without ANY credible evidence.

You've claimed your four heroes are "experts" in this subject and yet none of them have any theological qualifications. Whereas the people I've cited (Reza Aslan, Philip Jenkins) genuinely do.

You've repeatedly built straw man arguments.

You've claimed stories about "no-go" areas in Sweden are true despite the only evidence of these being on right wing websites and the Swedish authorities/academics debunking them.

You've claimed stoning is widespread throughout the Muslim world despite evidence it's very much an outlier.

You have repeatedly denied the atrocities committed in the name of Islam aren't down to interpretation but yet can't provide an explanation why Islam is demonstrably interpreted and carried out differently throughout the Muslim world.

The only thing I can't work out is whether you're a plain unreconstructed racist or just someone who's poorly educated, miserable and with little experience of the real world who sits in his room watching youtube videos to reinforce his prejudices. You'll be pleased to know I'm veering towards the latter explanation. 

 

 

 

 

 

[___S_o_m_a__]

This thread is now NWA approved.

 

 

 

[Charm]

8 hours ago, ___S_o_m_a__ said:

This thread is now NWA approved.

 

 

 

Finally something on this thread thats made me smile, excellent. 
Charm x

[eFestivals]

15 minutes ago, Charm said:

Finally something on this thread thats made me smile, excellent. 
Charm x

and something in this thread that makes me angry.

If theres nothing worthwhile to contribute, why might someone think their role in life is to troll?

It suggests to me a want of a particular version to stand by ridiculing the version not wanted to stand, but without the brain to actually say anything of substance.

If spoiling contributions here is the done thing, WTF do these forums even exist?

For the brain dead there's facebook.

Edited January 12, 2017 by eFestivals

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

5 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

 but without the brain to actually say anything of substance.

Pretty much why I have (up to now) steered clear of this thread. Unfortunately / fortunately a mental barrier comes up for me whenever politics, religion and other weighty subjects come up here and elsewhere.  I do understand what you are saying though - which I guess means something. Now, is anybody up for a knob joke? Only kidding.

[Avalon_Fields]

9 minutes ago, Yoghurt on a Stick said:

Pretty much why I have (up to now) steered clear of this thread 

Me too, I made a vow to avoid expressing any political views on any efestival thread. What's so funny about peace, love and understanding, as the song goes...

[russycarps]

12 hours ago, arcade fireman said:

The alt right absolutely did popularise the word "cuck", this is well documented. The original word cuckold was an old English word which people barely used for years.

http://www.gq.com/story/why-angry-white-men-love-calling-people-cucks

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-pol-alt-right-terminology-20161115-story.html

http://www.ibtimes.com/what-cuck-origin-insult-alt-right-white-nationalists-who-support-trump-2451694

Literally put in "cuck" into google and you get nothing but things about the alt-right. The word is not in the Oxford English Dictionary. So yes, it is the language of the alt-right. Proved conclusively.

Yes there's a link between Islam and violence. 

There's also a link between Christianity and violence, indeed the Bible has been found to be more violent both from an academic viewpoint (from Philip Jenkins, someone with far more academic qualifications on this than your four mates):

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124494788

And from a pure text analysis too:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/violence-more-common-in-bible-than-quran-text-analysis-reveals-a6863381.html

There is however currently a bigger link between people using the violent parts of the Koran than there is for the violent parts of the Bible or any other holy book. If not the texts, then what? And why did most of the 20th century go by with only a few Islamic terror attacks until the 90s? Did Islam change? Or did in fact geopolitical factors shape the picture massively? 

You continually reject it is not down to an interpretation issue. But clearly there are massive differences between the way Islam is interpreted. All of these are Muslim countries: Turkey, Saudi, Senegal, Jordan, Pakistan, Malaysia, Kazakhstan. Do you think they're all basically the same in the way Islam is interpreted and carried out by its people? Or do you think there's in fact massive differences between how Islam is interpreted in practice? To paint the Muslim world as one homogenised entity as you keep doing is idiotic and ignorant. 

You're standing up for moderate Muslims. Sure By blaming their religion for more rapes in Europe without any evidence.

You use a word which has conclusively shown to have been popularised by the alt-Right, yes it's legitimate to link you to that movement. 

I claim there's zero link to Islam?

I have REPEATEDLY said there is a link to Islam. I have said this to about every single post you've said this, and yet you still keep on building straw men. 

I continue to deny there's a problem? Let me just quote something I said:

Have you noticed how you keep on inventing things I've supposedly said when I've said the opposite? This is called straw man building and it's done by people who are losing the argument. 

Reza Aslan has FAR more qualifications on this than all of the people you've cited put together. This is demonstrably true. Please, list all the qualifications on religion which your supposed "experts" that you've named have. 

You don't seem to be particularly academic, but I will leave this here:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/accordingtomatthew/2015/08/stop-calling-reza-aslan-a-fraud-and-learn-how-academia-works/

It is 100% verifiable that Aslan holds a Master's in Theology from Harvard. His PhD tutor has debunked this idea he "lied about his degrees". If you honestly think someone who edited Breitbart and has no religious qualifications is more of an expert than Aslan your ignorance is beyond words. 

So you're using "immigrants" interchangeably with Muslims?! My god, you are stupid. You do realise...plenty...of immigrants....aren't Muslim?!

There are the British figures I posted earlier which specifically look at the ethnicity of the perpetrators (even then too broad but at least a little more specific) and show these have barely changed. Still you ignore these. 

Since you accuse me of building straw men, I will quote you directly:

I don't even know where to start with your Swedish claims. They're so demonstrably stupid it's untrue.

Firstly, again, you're talking about immigration in general. But even if you were, it still makes no sense. 

Are you familiar with the phrase "correlation doesn't mean causation?". I don't suppose you are.

There is a fantastic website which demonstrates your logical idiocy far better than words ever could:

http://tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

There's also a great article on the ground which quotes a criminologist at Stockholm University (you see, it's good to get actual experts on their field rather than just Breitbart editors) also completely debunking this:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/swedens-rape-crisis-isnt-what-it-seems/article30019623/

Since you accuse me of using straw men, this was the thing you actually said. You were directly linking the immigration of Muslims to Europe with increased rapes in Europe. Which you have zero actual evidence for. Just a correlation between increased immigrants and rapes. This is about as flimsy evidence as it's possible to get.

Oh and this "no-go" myth has been debunked by the Swedish authorities:

http://www.thelocal.se/20160923/embassy-no-go-zones-do-not-exist-in-sweden-hungary

Indeed, if you type in "sweden no go areas" into google, the only results are from RT, the Mail, Express, Breitbart, Jihadwatch and various other right wing lunatic organisations. Why don't even any politically neutral reputable sites carry this story? Why not even moderately right wing ones like The Times? What does that tell you about the sources you use?!  

Swedish police drew up a list of 55 areas where, and I quote: "local criminal networks are considered to have a negative impact on the local society" and where the police have once or multiple times felt insecure doing their job".

This is NOT the same as a "no go area". Don't you see how you're just making up shit you read on right wing websites and don't even seem to critically analyse whether these things are actually true?

So no, you're not arguing "rationally" like you claim.

You've claimed to have "credible sources" whilst using fake news articles.

You've claimed Muslim immigration is down to rape rising in Europe without ANY credible evidence.

You've claimed your four heroes are "experts" in this subject and yet none of them have any theological qualifications. Whereas the people I've cited (Reza Aslan, Philip Jenkins) genuinely do.

You've repeatedly built straw man arguments.

You've claimed stories about "no-go" areas in Sweden are true despite the only evidence of these being on right wing websites and the Swedish authorities/academics debunking them.

You've claimed stoning is widespread throughout the Muslim world despite evidence it's very much an outlier.

You have repeatedly denied the atrocities committed in the name of Islam aren't down to interpretation but yet can't provide an explanation why Islam is demonstrably interpreted and carried out differently throughout the Muslim world.

The only thing I can't work out is whether you're a plain unreconstructed racist or just someone who's poorly educated, miserable and with little experience of the real world who sits in his room watching youtube videos to reinforce his prejudices. You'll be pleased to know I'm veering towards the latter explanation. 

 

 

 

 

 

Re: the no-go zones. We all mocked trump mercilessly when he claimed there were no-go zones in london. But when it's in other countries the rabid-right lap it up like thirsty dogs. Breathtaking double standards.

 

[eFestivals]

22 minutes ago, Avalon_Fields said:

I made a vow to avoid expressing any political views on any efestival thread.

Don't worry, it's not obligatory.

But there's no need for posts only designed to spoil others' expressions.

[Avalon_Fields]

3 hours ago, eFestivals said:

But there's no need for posts only designed to spoil others' expressions.

true, I agree with you, I'll keep quiet!