Women only venue

[Winslow Leach]

13 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Yeah, good idea, they can add it to your own.

[Watto1990]

33 minutes ago, Uh-Oh! said:

Nah I appreciate you sisterz need a safe space to run to when youre triggered, after youve no platformed the patriarchy or some such 3rd wave, SJW BS, perhaps the energy produced from the whining can be recycled 

Yet it seems the only one triggered and whining about this is you??

[Waapster]

1 hour ago, Uh-Oh! said:

Doubt it sweetheart, in 1975 I was only 12, but pretty sure theres an octagenerian actor out there you could accuse, or blame the ones already banged up

You know how you're in a pub and some loud mouth w*nker decides to share his views in the most objectionable way possible. He isn't liked, isn't respected and, because of his behaviour, isn't welcome?

In case it needs spelling out, that's you that is.

[Bradders]

4 minutes ago, Waapster said:

You know how you're in a pub and some loud mouth w*nker decides to share his views in the most objectionable way possible. He isn't liked, isn't respected and, because of his behaviour, isn't welcome?

In case it needs spelling out, that's you that is.

The sad thing is, because of his obvious issues with his masculinity, he sees this kind of baiting of people on the Internet, and the responses, as some kind of male crusade that he can use to validate himself.

[Winslow Leach]

9 minutes ago, Bradders said:

The sad thing is, because of his obvious issues with his masculinity, he sees this kind of baiting of people on the Internet, and the responses, as some kind of male crusade that he can use to validate himself.

"No I'm not mad, YOU'RE MAD!"

[CaledonianGonzo]

It's a handy in-progress example - not that one was needed - of how MRAs don't really give two hoots about equality.

[Tigerdragon]

 

10 minutes ago, Scruffylovemonster said:

You've used words that uh-oh won't be able to understand there, Bradders. 

It's seeming harder and harder not to...

[RichardWaller]

Wow, this escalated. From a women only venue at Glastonbury to Operation Yew Tree victim blaming in a dozen pages... I know Glastonbury and its clientelle are a diverse bunch, but wow...

Edited June 7, 2016 by RichardWaller

[giantkatestacks]

It sadly always happens around women's issues on the internet. There must be some sort of siren that goes off somewhere.

[jonodillieono]

17 minutes ago, giantkatestacks said:

It sadly always happens around women's issues on the internet. There must be some sort of siren that goes off somewhere.

I think it's because quite a lot of people think that fighting sexism with more sexism is a silly idea

[eFestivals]

18 minutes ago, giantkatestacks said:

It sadly always happens around women's issues on the internet. There must be some sort of siren that goes off somewhere.

For what it's worth, from being sat here for 18 years, it's improved quite a lot over that time.

Keep the faith.

[Bradders]

3 minutes ago, jonodillieono said:

I think it's because quite a lot of people think that fighting sexism with more sexism is a silly idea

Are you not paying attention to what people are saying in this thread? Do you look at Uh-Oh!'s posts and still honestly see no reason that people like him will make women feel uncomfortable bringing up problems they've had with harassment, and why it would therefore be a good idea to have a safe space away from MRA c**ts?

[eFestivals]

22 minutes ago, jonodillieono said:

I think it's because quite a lot of people think that fighting sexism with more sexism is a silly idea

It's not like 'fighting for peace' or 'fucking for virginity'.

[Waapster]

27 minutes ago, jonodillieono said:

I think it's because quite a lot of people think that fighting sexism with more sexism is a silly idea

No, its because some men think its ok to hijack any discussion about sexism with more sexism - luckily this forum isn't the kind of place for rape threats but in other corners of the web that's exactly what the siren summons.

My daughters are just the age to start going to festivals and if they encounter harassment I like the idea that they can get together with other women to discuss the problem and solutions. And if they say to me, "actually, we'd rather tackle this together as women", more power to them.

[RichardWaller]

 

1 hour ago, giantkatestacks said:

It sadly always happens around women's issues on the internet. There must be some sort of siren that goes off somewhere.

I saw a post about this on Facebook this morning too, and predictably it took no time for people to start going on about mens' areas, segregated race areas etc. I wonder if there are people out there more opposed to this than bloody apartheid! 

1 hour ago, jonodillieono said:

I think it's because quite a lot of people think that fighting sexism with more sexism is a silly idea

How do you join the dots from the topic of a women's only area at Glastonbury, to doubting the integrity of allegations by sexual assault victims? It's quite a leap..

What do you think is sexist about this? I could be wrong, but I doubt this is going to be an exercise in man hating and female supremacy, like what the Daily Mail's caricatured idea of what a feminist is. If that's what's going to be happening here, I can understand the opposition. That'd be sexist. Is it the mere exclusion of men (which will be by no means absolute anyway) that you find sexist? If so, do you think single sex schools or women's refuge centres are sexist?

34 minutes ago, Waapster said:

No, its because some men think its ok to hijack any discussion about sexism with more sexism - luckily this forum isn't the kind of place for rape threats but in other corners of the web that's exactly what the siren summons.

My daughters are just the age to start going to festivals and if they encounter harassment I like the idea that they can get together with other women to discuss the problem and solutions. And if they say to me, "actually, we'd rather tackle this together as women", more power to them.

Yeah, there are certain corners you'd expect more extreme versions of the kind of attitudes displayed against this on here. I like the idea that women will have a place to go to discuss these issues too but in an ideal world, the perpetrators of their problems would be included and learn from the debate themselves. But I feel that's a fairly moot point in itself, if people respected women they wouldn't harass them and if they're willing to do that why would they listen anyway? 

 

And I think people are making a much bigger deal of this than it is. On a strictly personal level, it's neither here nor there to me, the place is a needle in a haystack. If it helps anyone in any way, great. If it ruins anyone's weekend cos they're not supposed to go in there.. Christ...

[shuttlep]

If women feel the need for a female only zone, as they would feel safer there and enjoy themselves more, then I am all for it.

 

but I do hang my head in shame that we live in a society where woman feel the need to have their own area so they can enjoy themselves.

 

as someone else said on here earlier, being a man, we do feel safe,  we don't have to deal with woman touching us up. I am not even sure if any of this happens at Glastonbury being a man who doesn;t do this I just thought it didn't happen.

[MadScientist]

Men demanding that women share every single space with them is the epitome of male privilege, then these men have the gall to say anyone who disagrees with them is sexist. It's laughable. 

[sloseph]

40 minutes ago, shuttlep said:

If women feel the need for a female only zone, as they would feel safer there and enjoy themselves more, then I am all for it.

 

but I do hang my head in shame that we live in a society where woman feel the need to have their own area so they can enjoy themselves.

 

as someone else said on here earlier, being a man, we do feel safe,  we don't have to deal with woman touching us up. I am not even sure if any of this happens at Glastonbury being a man who doesn;t do this I just thought it didn't happen.

pretty much this word for word

I honestly (naively) thought that Glastonbury would be one of the few places women could come and have a great time without worrying about being sexually assaulted in the crowd

I've never seen it happen and it's never happened to me so I just (wrongly) assumed it wasn't a thing at Glastonbury

I suppose that's the exact reason why this has been created, to kick the conversation off and make it clear that this is an issue even on the happiest place on earth

[RichardWaller]

21 minutes ago, MadScientist said:

Men demanding that women share every single space with them is the epitome of male privilege, then these men have the gall to say anyone who disagrees with them is sexist. It's laughable. 

This, personally I've got a hunch that the kind or men most aggressively demanding their right to be there will be the kind of men least interested in what's going on and being said there. It's Stan's right to have babies.

[ohvienna]

The fact that the only people who have complained about a women's only space in this thread are men speaks volumes. It's not about inequality or segregation, it's about empowerment. While 'let's figure this out all together' is a great sentiment, in reality, plenty of women have been told or trained to believe their opinion or feelings are invalid by men, so it's important to create spaces where we can go and be inspired and leave feeling empowered. Also - it's really nice being able to go somewhere you know you won't be groped or hassled or chatted up by someone who won't leave you alone and gets aggressive about it. It's nice to think these things don't happen at Glastonbury, but these things happen everywhere.

Also - just wanted to throw a thank you out to the men in this thread who understand why women need spaces like these.

[RichardWaller]

14 minutes ago, sloseph said:

pretty much this word for word

I honestly (naively) thought that Glastonbury would be one of the few places women could come and have a great time without worrying about being sexually assaulted in the crowd

I've never seen it happen and it's never happened to me so I just (wrongly) assumed it wasn't a thing at Glastonbury

I suppose that's the exact reason why this has been created, to kick the conversation off and make it clear that this is an issue even on the happiest place on earth

Certainly kicked off the discussion, agree with you and @shuttlep, I've not seen anything at Glastonbury and although I'd expect a much lesser extent I don't doubt for a second that women do face leering, intimidation, harassment, groping or worse at Glastonbury too like anywhere else. How we deal with these things on a wider scale I have no idea, in some aspects I feel like we're going backwards. Was reading about that Stanford swimmer guy yesterday, it's not an uncommon attitude. I don't know where we go from here:

[Tigerdragon]

4 minutes ago, RichardWaller said:

Certainly kicked off the discussion, agree with you and @shuttlep, I've not seen anything at Glastonbury and although I'd expect a much lesser extent I don't doubt for a second that women do face leering, intimidation, harassment, groping or worse at Glastonbury too like anywhere else. How we deal with these things on a wider scale I have no idea, in some aspects I feel like we're going backwards. Was reading about that Stanford swimmer guy yesterday, it's not an uncommon attitude. I don't know where we go from here:

I guess the newest idea is that we stop constructing 'male' and 'female' against each other as opposites - see trends such as non-gender play, the 'because I'm a girl' advertising campaign, genderless parenting, unisex/unmarked bathrooms etc etc etc.

It would go a long way if male identity was less to do with not being 'female' and female identity not being 'male', and we should be suspicious of anything that tries to suggest the two are defined, biological categories. Challenges like this might create a lot more common ground and shared experience.

That's the cure - alleviating friction between differences that are taken for granted but which, perhaps, don't really or 'naturally' exist.
 

[Funkyfairy!]

I for one am certainly going to visit the micro club and see what its all about

Take away this country from the equation and see how women and girls are treated outside here and its appalling. We all need to know and understand how the wider world works as well, and I hope these issues are highlighted within this space

I live a sheltered life, and am very lucky, and cannot imagine a world where as a young teenage girl I couldn't go to school for a week every month as I has no way to keep clean/have sanitary protection and would be ridiculed and seen as unclean my my fellow male schoolmates. And I go to the toilet miles away from anywhere for fear of being attacked as I was going about my business

I'm not sure as an individual what I can personally do, but I darn well want to be aware and want to know what little bit of me can help in a tiny way

As for this country there is are twitter account(s) set up for women to share views/experiences who are assualted at gigs and festivals - its horrifying that these accounts even need to exist - I can;t remember the main one (I'll post it when I do) - there;s @girlsagainst as well if anyone interested

Women earn less in most if not all sporting events, and there are still men that support that  - wasn;t there a newspaper article last year with one of the tennis players supporting the gap in pay. We shouldn;t consider ourselves inferior to anyone, yet everywhere around women we are deemed as lesser mortals for pay, board positions etc... the figures speak for themselves.

Believe me, I'm not great at expressing myself, and its taken me a lot to write all this down and its probably all a jumble, but seriously for those that are kicking off about one small micro venue being dedicated as a womens only space - either take a long hard look at why its been put in place (by no doubt a group of passionate women) - or maybe try to take a wander down, and introduce yourself and say how interested you are in what is going on - hey even say for the next hour you'd like to identy with women and put yourself in a womens shoes and join in - you never know, its Shangri La after all !

 

 

[jonodillieono]

1 hour ago, RichardWaller said:

 

How do you join the dots from the topic of a women's only area at Glastonbury, to doubting the integrity of allegations by sexual assault victims? It's quite a leap..

Same way you just joined the dots from me saying a women's only area at Glastonbury is sexist leads to me doubting the integrity of sexual assault victims, quite the leap indeed... 
 

What do you think is sexist about this? I could be wrong, but I doubt this is going to be an exercise in man hating and female supremacy, like what the Daily Mail's caricatured idea of what a feminist is. If that's what's going to be happening here, I can understand the opposition. That'd be sexist. Is it the mere exclusion of men (which will be by no means absolute anyway) that you find sexist? If so, do you think single sex schools or women's refuge centres are sexist?

Literally the very definition of sexism, discrimination on the basis of sex. A man is not allowed into a venue because he is a man, therefore he is being discriminated against due to his sex, therefore sexism

Single sex schools are sexist and women's refugee centres are sexist by definition yes. 

 

Edited June 7, 2016 by jonodillieono

[jumbomcnutt]

Glastonbury have confirmed that there is also a men's only area this year, they marked the areas on the map as "Urinals" - I'm performing there each day.