Not enough female performers? Or silly agenda-pushing nonsense?

[majormajormajor]

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/jun/23/glastonbury-reading-creamfields-2015-festival-female-artists-charts-lineups-male

http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/jun/20/women-festivals-glastonbury-florence-and-the-machine

http://www.theguardian.com/music/womens-blog/2015/jun/23/festival-bands-female-acts-british-lineups

http://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2015/feb/25/reading-leeds-festivals-why-so-few-women-on-bill

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/mar/20/when-music-festival-stages-are-stacked-in-favour-of-men-its-bad-news-for-everyone

 

The Guardian have had a bunch of articles in the past month or two about the 'big problem' of there not being enough female artists being playing music festivals.

 

Anyone else think this is absurd, a complete non-issue? Festivals are about music, not gender/equality issues. Gender doesn't even come into it - if it's reasonably popular and the booker thinks they're OK and they'll sell tickets, they book them. Festivals are amongst the more progressive elements of society, not (for the most part anyway, *cough* download *cough*) macho, chauvinist outlets.

 

I don't think it's empowering to women for media outlets to hammer away endlessly at a non-existent problem. Concentrate on actual issues which actually affect women. If someone came up to me and asked me 'what do you think about the huge problem of gender inequality at music festivals?', I'd probably blankly stare in surprise for a few seconds before thinking 'this person is crazy'. Seems vacuous and counter-intuitive to me.

 

Thoughts?

Edited June 23, 2015 by majormajormajor

[sloseph]

id say there is definitely an issue but it's more a problem that there aren't enough female musicians full stop, record labels need to start being more open to female artist which would then lead to more female bookings at festivals

 

the ratio of men to women in pretty much any musical classification is way out, the way I see it is record labels are far more willing to put their money into male acts which if you are a teenage girl who wants to play music must looks pretty discouraging 

[Tigerdragon]

This keeps coming up.

Women not being on lineups is an issue, because it means there is a problem at source. Why are women not entering the music industry? Is it because people follow the paths of role models in their likeness? Well clearly that must be part of the issue. So role models must be created, by giving good female artists good slots. More women then entering the industry, and more even lineups, will mean more diversity, which can only be good.

I mean, how many people moan about how monotonous new music seems? Well maybe its because the same old people start a band, the same old people get noticed, and the same old people do the noticing.

See politics for another example of how, without intervention, likeness begets likeness. Or mainstream sport.

I mean if you think this is a non-issue, then think about how many female dominated things you ever see. Culinary, music, TV writing, acting, politics, reporter; these, in varying levels, are professions entered by men.

I'll let the Simpsons do the rest:

EDIT: I'd actually say the one issue you've highlighted is one of the non-issues. Pornification of teenage boys is only dangerous while women do not have access to the same empowerment. Edited June 23, 2015 by Tigerdragon

[CaledonianGonzo]

Catfish and the Bottlemen would be better if they were female performers

[Tigerdragon]

Catfish and the Bottlemen would be better if they were female performers

Catish and the bottlewomen; i like your thinking.

[evilduck]

I agree that theres not enough women in the music industry full stop. Festival promoters could help by actively trying to book more female artists and bands to try and increase their exposure. I'm not saying they should book some small girl punk band to headline a stage, but to consider booking more female artists in some lower slots where popularity and artist size doesn't matter so much.

 

This could lead to the record labels noticing the extra attention towards them and maybe encouraging them to take on more ladies?

Edited June 23, 2015 by evilduck

[Winslow Leach]

Catfish and the Bottlemen would be better if they were female performers

No need, they're a proper festival band already. I don't want to have to think about things.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Winslow Leach

[PabloCoke]

Not enough female bin men either, I await the guardian article...

[Starchild771]

I agree with you OP. It's a complete non-issue for me as a woman and as someone who makes music.

There seems to be a constant drive towards making everything in life "equal" for "everyone" regardless of whether it's needed or not.

For example why does it matter if there are more males making music than females? There are still plenty of women doing it too, it may be a bit harder for them in some areas but so what? I just want quality music at the end of the day and couldn't care less about the demographics.

It's a complicated issue which I think has less to do with sexism, and more to do with slight differences between the genders, which ultimately means men are more likely to have the necessary attitude to try to become a professional musician. (Im generalising and basing my opinion on personal experiences).

[Amii]

I don't see it as a problem. There are plenty of female performers on the bill, and I think the balance is fine at Glastonbury. Might be a wider industry issue but it's not one that has ever struck me as a big problem.

In honesty, I think things like this distract from bigger issues for women.

[eFestivals]

In honesty, I think things like this distract from bigger issues for women.

I'd say things like this are the heart of the issue.

If women don't feel empowered to do music just think of all the other things they're being short changed on.

Only when women feel able to enter all professions as equally as men are things really getting somewhere.

[CaledonianGonzo]

There seems to be a constant drive towards making everything in life "equal" for "everyone" regardless of whether it's needed or not.

Maybe it is needed...? What's wrong with equality?

For example why does it matter if there are more males making music than females? There are still plenty of women doing it too, it may be a bit harder for them in some areas but so what?

Maybe it shouldn't be hard for anyone?

[Tigerdragon]

I agree with you OP. It's a complete non-issue for me as a woman and as someone who makes music.

There seems to be a constant drive towards making everything in life "equal" for "everyone" regardless of whether it's needed or not.

For example why does it matter if there are more males making music than females? There are still plenty of women doing it too, it may be a bit harder for them in some areas but so what? I just want quality music at the end of the day and couldn't care less about the demographics.

It's a complicated issue which I think has less to do with sexism, and more to do with slight differences between the genders, which ultimately means men are more likely to have the necessary attitude to try to become a professional musician. (Im generalising and basing my opinion on personal experiences).

The problem is not women not making music on the same scale as men. Its women, statistically, not dominating any profession. Women are at a par with boys in terms creativity and brightness and grades (depending on what statistics you use) at every key stage between 0 and 21 years old. Yet name me one career path they dominate... If you could say, yes more men exist in music, but look at theatre, and look at cooking, and look at tennis; women are there, its just a slight difference. But clearly, so clearly, this is not a "slight" difference.

I mean, its as simple as what presents kids get for Christmas and Birthdays. What gender do you associate these presents with: Dolls house, rocking horse. And now these: football, electric guitar, drums.

 

Edited June 23, 2015 by Tigerdragon

[maelzoid]

Even though there are a few female-fronted bands, so many of those have guys in the back ranks.  The number of bands (female fronted or otherwise) with female drummers, bassists, guitarists (who don't also sing) is pitiful.  There just seem to be so few women who are 'musicians' rather than 'pop stars', and that to me is the big problem.  It seems that culturally we are happy to encourage young girls to be singers and songwriters, but so rarely are they encouraged to just be a good musician with mastery of their particular instrument.

[The_Amazing_Oblong]

Silly agenda pushing nonsense. If someone is good enough that there is money to be made then they will get promoted because there is money to be made. Same argument for womens football. 

 

There are now and always have been lots of successful women in the music industry. Yes there are more men but traditionally, and to this day, plenty of women make the decision to be the homemaker. Nothing wrong with that as a choice*.

 

*Yes, I said choice.

 

I'm eagerly awaiting the next article from the feminists - Why do men get to have all the cocks ?

[jonodillieono]

Not enough female bin men either, I await the guardian article...

Was literally about to post this, word for word

[chewsavedlatin]

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/jun/23/glastonbury-reading-creamfields-2015-festival-female-artists-charts-lineups-male

http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/jun/20/women-festivals-glastonbury-florence-and-the-machine

http://www.theguardian.com/music/womens-blog/2015/jun/23/festival-bands-female-acts-british-lineups

http://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2015/feb/25/reading-leeds-festivals-why-so-few-women-on-bill

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/mar/20/when-music-festival-stages-are-stacked-in-favour-of-men-its-bad-news-for-everyone

 

The Guardian have had a bunch of articles in the past month or two about the 'big problem' of there not being enough female artists being playing music festivals.

 

Anyone else think this is absurd, a complete non-issue? Festivals are about music, not gender/equality issues. Gender doesn't even come into it - if it's reasonably popular and the booker thinks they're OK and they'll sell tickets, they book them. Festivals are amongst the more progressive elements of society, not (for the most part anyway, *cough* download *cough*) macho, chauvinist outlets.

 

I don't think it's empowering to women for media outlets to hammer away endlessly at a non-existent problem. Concentrate on actual issues which actually affect women. If someone came up to me and asked me 'what do you think about the huge problem of gender inequality at music festivals?', I'd probably blankly stare in surprise for a few seconds before thinking 'this person is crazy'. Seems vacuous and counter-intuitive to me.

 

Thoughts?

 

I take exception that metal and heavy music is macho and chauvinistic. I’ve been involved in metal and hardcore scenes for the best part of 15 years, and on the whole I find it a lot more accepting and “lefty” than other scenes. Its one of the few genres where if you have a woman in the band, no one within the scene even bats an eyelid. If an indie band has a female member it’s the main focus.

[Bradders]

What's the agenda everyone is so against being pushed here? Equal rights and opportunities?

 

If there were equal rights and opportunities there would be equal representation in music. If you don't believe that then you must believe women are innately not as good or not as interested in music?

Edited June 23, 2015 by Bradders

[jonodillieono]

I'm eagerly awaiting the next article from the feminists - Why do men get to have all the cocks ?

This is already a thing, just because you're born with a penis doesn't make you a male. You choose your gender when you feel ready these days regardless of sexual organs.

I seen quite a few people kicking off on Twitter when the first royal baby was born and was announced to be a boy. They were writing stuff like 'How dare they decide the gender for the baby, the baby will decide it's gender when it's old enough' but obviously in more over the top fashion which is all the rage on Twitter these days

So yer not all the penises belong to males, some belong to females, some belong to people who haven't decided a gender yet and some belong to people who claim they're animals (yes this is a thing too)

[eFestivals]

What's the agenda everyone is so against being pushed here? Equal rights and opportunities?

If there were equal rights and opportunities there would be equal representation in music. If you don't believe that then you must believe women are innately not as good or not as interested in music?

This

[Tigerdragon]

Silly agenda pushing nonsense. If someone is good enough that there is money to be made then they will get promoted because there is money to be made. Same argument for womens football. 

 

There are now and always have been lots of successful women in the music industry. Yes there are more men but traditionally, and to this day, plenty of women make the decision to be the homemaker. Nothing wrong with that as a choice*.

 

*Yes, I said choice.

 

I'm eagerly awaiting the next article from the feminists - Why do men get to have all the cocks ?

Yes, if women want to be home-makers, that is fine. But do you genuinely think they list all the things they'd like to with their lives and, en masse, pick that as their ideal future? And if you do, why do you think that is? Estrogen?

People don't want to force women to do anything. Feminism isn't there to speak for them. Sometimes, people try to under the flag of feminism, and they are bullshit merchants. Its just about having the choices. After all, in the huge scratch-card that is life, wouldn't it be nice if more diverse people got winning tickets, not just men. Who are white. From money. From Eton or Harrow. Who have a degree in PPE. From Oxford and Cambridge. 

 

Edited June 23, 2015 by Tigerdragon

[jonodillieono]

What's the agenda everyone is so against being pushed here? Equal rights and opportunities?

If there were equal rights and opportunities there would be equal representation in music. If you don't believe that then you must believe women are innately not as good or not as interested in music?

I'm against the possibility of shitter acts being on the lineup just because they have a female in the band. If they've got the choice between two bands for a certain spot, one an all female band and one an all male band, they should book who they think is the better band regardless of gender.

[The_Amazing_Oblong]

What's the agenda everyone is so against being pushed here? Equal rights and opportunities?

 

If there were equal rights and opportunities there would be equal representation in music. If you don't believe that then you must believe women are innately not as good or not as interested in music?

 

Not really. I pointed out just a couple posts above yours that quite a lot of women decide to become homemakers when they have children and take part time jobs which means not as many are entering ALL professions and thus there will NEVER be equal representation in music.

 

If you don't believe that then you must believe women don't make good homemakers.

 

See how this works ?

 

Who wants blind equality anyway.

 

[chewsavedlatin]

What's the agenda everyone is so against being pushed here? Equal rights and opportunities?

 

If there were equal rights and opportunities there would be equal representation in music. If you don't believe that then you must believe women are innately not as good or not as interested in music?

 

I do believe women are generally not as interested in music as men.

This is not a slight against women, just a personal observation.

[Tigerdragon]

I'm against the possibility of shitter acts being on the lineup just because they have a female in the band. If they've got the choice between two bands for a certain spot, one an all female band and one an all male band, they should book who they think is the better band regardless of gender.

The other side of this is if a booking agent has two identical acts, except one is female and one is male, he will almost certainly chose the latter, as going with what you know is easy.

Without diversity of humans in music, it becomes generic, and suffers. Essentially, you're being very short-sighted.