The Dirty Independence Question

[steviewevie]

LJS - I definitely sympathise with the Scottish independence cause...but with Sturgeon going, and a likely Labour win in Westminster,  then that whole thing is definitely postponed indefinitely.

I think it it will still happen one day, demographics is on your side, but not in the short term. 

And obviously SNP is a broad church, broader than labour or conservatives...mostly soft left, but some real cultural conservatives like Forbes...maybe there needs to be a more pro independence parties..?

[pink_triangle]

49 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

 

They asked Humza whether he supported marriage equality and he said yes. I think the key thing is Forbes is saying she would let her religion dictate how she would vote and Humza has not. It is perfectly reasonable to question people who don’t think gay people should have the same rights as straight people.

[zahidf]

54 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

 

Looollll. It's her opinion on gay marriage which is the issue not her religion.

 

[pink_triangle]

5 hours ago, LJS said:

I don't think Forbes has any chance & Regan has even less. For me, Yousaf looks reasonably competent. Whatever your views on Sturgeon , she is a really hard act to follow - a bit like following Sir Alex at Man U!!

 

Forbes seems to think that it’s just people on twitter moaning. I wonder is she has a point and the SNP are more right wing when you think. I hope she does win as it would be a dream for labour to put her bigoted views on their election material. It would also be difficult for those on the left of the SNP to get behind someone who doesn’t believe gay people should have the same rights as straight people and could cause party division.

[zahidf]

3 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

They asked Humza whether he supported marriage equality and he said yes. I think the key thing is Forbes is saying she would let her religion dictate how she would vote and Humza has not. It is perfectly reasonable to question people who don’t think gay people should have the same rights as straight people.

Yup. That tweet is absolutely ridiculous. 

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, pink_triangle said:

Forbes seems to think that it’s just people on twitter moaning. I wonder is she has a point and the SNP are more right wing when you think. I hope she does win as it would be a dream for labour to put her bigoted views on their election material. It would also be difficult for those on the left of the SNP to get behind someone who doesn’t believe gay people should have the same rights as straight people and could cause party division.

To an extent, but if your MSPs and MPs are withdrawing their support, there's only so far she can get with the membership

 

Also, they got Labour and lib dem votes from the left. If she's leader, they'll lose a whole chunk of that support. 

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by zahidf

[pink_triangle]

4 hours ago, LJS said:

I disagree.

At the same time I don’t pick up any great enthusiasm from you about his leadership bid. Definitely feels more like least worst than best.

[zahidf]

Wait until they ask forbes what she thinks about abortion rights...

Edited February 21, 2023 by zahidf

[zahidf]

Wait until they ask forbes what she thinks about abortion rights...

[pink_triangle]

6 minutes ago, zahidf said:

To an extent, but if your MSPs and MPs are withdrawing their support, there's only so far she can get with the membership

 

I find this withdrawing support weird and LJS can probably explain it better as he has done similar. These people all supported her and were aware she had dodgy views, I have highlighted them for a few years so there was no secrets.

I don’t think there was any doubt she didn’t believe in gay marriage so why the shock and removal of endorsements. I struggle to see what has really changed, or did the increased media profile scare a few and the rest followed the crowd?

[pink_triangle]

4 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

I think it would be strange if an MPs religious view point didn't factor into how they vote.  Depends if you want people who operate on principles or someone who is trying to get your vote.  The latter leads to the likes of Boris who will be anything to anyone if it gets him the vote.

I think its clear Forbes is being questioned a lot more on the issue than Humza.  But Humza is also the one the media wants so no surprise.

I mean Humza religion may not approve of gay marriage, but Humza does. There isn’t really a story there. I assume some people believe in some aspects of their religions and not others. Then you get the hardcore nutters like Forbes who blindly support it all. 
 

I think the reality is Kate Forbes could only lead a right wing nationalist party, but I think the SNP is more right wing than LJS believes, so may be proven wrong.

Interestingly Wales will also choose a new leader this year and my guess is all candidates will fully support gay marriage.

[pink_triangle]

8 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

I would imagine she is quite anti if she is a Christian.   I doubt we will find out what Humza truly think.

I think there are loads of christians that are not anti abortion, my parents certainly are not. I don’t think all Christians should be tarred by the extremes like Forbes.

[LJS]

10 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I find this withdrawing support weird and LJS can probably explain it better as he has done similar. These people all supported her and were aware she had dodgy views, I have highlighted them for a few years so there was no secrets.

I was OK with her being finance minister. I'm not OK with her leading the party or being First Minister.

10 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

 

I don’t think there was any doubt she didn’t believe in gay marriage so why the shock and removal of endorsements. I struggle to see what has really changed, or did the increased media profile scare a few and the rest followed the crowd?

Interestingly, she didn't vote on the GRC bill as she was on maternity leave, although I think she has said she couldn't have supported it. She would have had to resign as finance minister of that was the case & that would have seriously reduced whatever chances she has of being leader.

[pink_triangle]

1 minute ago, LJS said:

I was OK with her being finance minister. I'm not OK with her leading the party or being First Minister.

 

How about the politicians, they all knew her views on gay marriage and endorsed her. Why then change their mind when she confirmed what everyone knew.

 

[LJS]

3 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

How about the politicians, they all knew her views on gay marriage and endorsed her. Why then change their mind when she confirmed what everyone knew.

 

Because she wasn't a leadership candidate.

 

 

[pink_triangle]

27 minutes ago, LJS said:

Because she wasn't a leadership candidate.

 

 

Several SNP politicians endorsed her for leader 2 days ago and changed their mind yesterday or today. I don’t really understand that as her weird views were already known.

[zahidf]

Just now, Barry Fish said:

I think Humza will say anything that gets him the votes he needs.  He is fucking weasel.  Not that like Forbes any better.

Well you're assuming he's against gay marriage. He says he is for gay marriage. I'm no fan of his but I'm not sure why the press are going easier on him when he's answered the question.

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, Barry Fish said:

Are they weird views ?   I think the majority support gay marriage and so on but plenty of people still go against all this stuff.  I guess people like yourself view anything different than your own thoughts as weird.

Well it's bigoted views. It's not weird but she's a bigot, and people don't want to vote for a bigot in Scotland 

[zahidf]

3 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

No...  

What I am saying is he is the type of politician who would tell you the sky is green if it got him the votes.

So a politician then?

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, Barry Fish said:

Well some of them have principles and some of them don't.  Like them or not Forbes is happy to talk about them.  I prefer that so I can make a judgement rather than second guess it all 

Yup and I judge her to be a bigot!

 

A brass necked one as well

 

 

 

[LJS]

5 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

If she becomes First Minister

She won't

5 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

who will you vote for ? 

No idea. But who u vote for is always some sort of compromise. You rarely get to vote for anyone whose views are 100% identical to yours.

Green maybe?

5 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Why are you ok with her being a minister but not first minister ?   Interesting stance.

I'm sure supporters of many parties are happy with ministers in their particular ministries without wanting them to be prime/first minister.

[steviewevie]

Kemi Badenoch is defending Forbes. That's all you need to know.

[steviewevie]

She's a bigot, but at least she's an honest bigot.

[Comfy Bean]

31 minutes ago, LJS said:

 

No idea. But who u vote for is always some sort of compromise. You rarely get to vote for anyone whose views are 100% identical to yours.

What’s the story with Robertson not standing? He was my first thought last week. Always thought he spoke well but maybe yesterday’s man ?

The way things are going he could be a safe pair of hands for the next couple of years. Steady the ship after Sturgeon etc. Unless I’m missing something 🤷‍♂️ 

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, Barry Fish said:

Are they weird views ?   I think the majority support gay marriage and so on but plenty of people still go against all this stuff.  I guess people like yourself view anything different than your own thoughts as weird.

I think it’s pretty weird in 2023. I know a few Christians and none could care less if men marry, what difference does it make to them?

To me the point is (whether you think weird or not) she was known to have the views on Sunday/Monday when SNP politicians got behind her, why did they change their mind when her views hadn’t changed .