The Dirty Independence Question

[Neil]

18 minutes ago, LJS said:

Yes.

 

If you did you'd reember once in a generation. 

18 minutes ago, LJS said:

I did neither.

You literally haven't a fucking clue.

There's nothing a sniper won't deny to avoid being naied as duplicitous. 

[LJS]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

 

If you did you'd reember once in a generation. 

It wasn't in any way a promise or a commitment. It wasn't in the edinburgh agreement.

It was an opinion: one which I shared - I thought indyref defeat would kill off any appetite for Indy for some considerable time.

I was wrong.

 

Just as you are.

 

1 minute ago, Neil said:

There's nothing a sniper won't deny to avoid being naied as duplicitous. 

There is nothing a Yoon won't make up to make snippers appear duplicitous.

Unless your memory has failed you, you know very well that I did not swallow the white paper hook line & sinker & was critical of a number of aspects of the SNP campaign.

[LJS]

15 minutes ago, OverlyComplicated said:

Fair enough and in some sense I agree the festering wound shall not heal over without treatment. I suspect if there were to be another referendum with both sides getting 45% or above then it would only further agitate the losing side. Of course if it where the Unionists to lose there would be the then necessary constitutional silly buggers of breaking up a union and forming a new nation as well as the anger of the losing side.

However I stay in an SNP constituency, I do not know how everyone at the school gates votes but it's fair to assume a reasonable number of them are Nationalists but I can say that everyone I spoke to/overheard today was more concerned with tomorrow's strike action than the supreme court ruling. 

I'm sure you are right. There seems to be a bizarre notion that those of us who support independence aren't concerned about anything else.

I don't want to get into a competition but I'd imagine I care as much about health, education, transport etc as you do.

[Neil]

2 hours ago, LJS said:

It wasn't in any way a promise or a commitment. It wasn't in the edinburgh agreement.

It was an opinion: one which I shared - I thought indyref defeat would kill off any appetite for Indy for some considerable time.

I was wrong.

 

Just as you are.

 

There is nothing a Yoon won't make up to make snippers appear duplicitous.

Unless your memory has failed you, you know very well that I did not swallow the white paper hook line & sinker & was critical of a number of aspects of the SNP capaign.

You used to say the white paper was a committed plan for what would happen. 

[LJS]

16 minutes ago, Neil said:

You used to say the white paper was a committed plan for what would happen. 

No I didn't.

 

Why do you keep making things up?

Edited November 23, 2022 by LJS

[steviewevie]

 

[Neil]

39 minutes ago, LJS said:

No I didn't.

 

Why do you keep making things up?

you didn't say it was a crock of shit, even when salmonds ridiculous projected oil prices were pointed out to you.

 

 

[LJS]

3 hours ago, Neil said:

you didn't say it was a crock of shit,

 

No, I didn't. But neither did I say it was a crock of gold.

Anyway, I rather liked this comment that I saw today...

"Its the Hotel California Union – “you can check out any time you like but you can never leave” .. Scotland checked out a while ago."

 

[LJS]

& Here is Bella Caledonia's take on it...

"So, the UK Supreme Court has ruled and ruled decisively.

There is no democratic path to a referendum regardless of what mandate is repeatedly obtained through the ballot box.

That’s a dangerously stupid thing for people to be crowing about.

Further, they were very specific: you don’t have the right to self-determination. You got that? Your right to decide your future governance is in the hands of a government you didn’t (and can’t) elect.

But the unabashed glee that the ruling is being met with by Unionists everywhere might need to be checked.

This ruling breaks the concept of a Union based on partnership and consent. The idea of a voluntary union is revealed as fraud and myth. That is the reality now set in stone that has to be defended in public debate."

https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2022/11/23/supreme-ruling/

 

[Neil]

8 hours ago, LJS said:

& Here is Bella Caledonia's take on it...

"So, the UK Supreme Court has ruled and ruled decisively.

There is no democratic path to a referendum regardless of what mandate is repeatedly obtained through the ballot box.

That’s a dangerously stupid thing for people to be crowing about.

Further, they were very specific: you don’t have the right to self-determination. You got that? Your right to decide your future governance is in the hands of a government you didn’t (and can’t) elect.

But the unabashed glee that the ruling is being met with by Unionists everywhere might need to be checked.

This ruling breaks the concept of a Union based on partnership and consent. The idea of a voluntary union is revealed as fraud and myth. That is the reality now set in stone that has to be defended in public debate."

https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2022/11/23/supreme-ruling/

 

OK, London has the right to leave and to take away the source of Scottish funding. 

[Neil]

8 hours ago, OverlyComplicated said:

I think it's sensible that such a huge issue as Independence is reserved for Westminster,

because holyrood doesn't respect scottish votes.

[Neil]

11 hours ago, LJS said:

No, I didn't. But neither did I say it was a crock of gold.

Anyway, I rather liked this comment that I saw today...

"Its the Hotel California Union – “you can check out any time you like but you can never leave” .. Scotland checked out a while ago."

 

Stop complaining about the impact of different views when you'll happily do the same onto Scots who don't want Scotland to be indy 

[LJS]

3 hours ago, Barry Fish said:

Its almost like Scotland didn't vote to stay in the UK when talking to the nationalists. 

 

The UK we voted to stay in does not exist any more. 

[kaosmark2]

2 minutes ago, LJS said:

The UK we voted to stay in does not exist any more. 

This isn't the same river.

[LJS]

6 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

This isn't the same river.

oh, its the same river ... its just had a whole heap of untreated sewage dumped in  it over the past few years

[LJS]

Just now, Barry Fish said:

Very much does...   

very much doesn't...

[kaosmark2]

9 minutes ago, LJS said:

oh, its the same river ... its just had a whole heap of untreated sewage dumped in  it over the past few years

I mean, Truss and Johnson have been removed. They're worse than sewage mind you.

[LJS]

14 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

LJS that is democracy for you...  If you had won the original referendum you would now have a sex offender leading your country and you would be building statues in his image and screaming FFFFRRREEEDDDOOOMMMM!!! with nothing under your kilt 😄 

Let me assure you Barry, there is plenty under my kilt!

[Neil]

3 hours ago, LJS said:

The UK we voted to stay in does not exist any more. 

The indy Scotland you were offered wasn't available. 

[Neil]

In the land of the blind, the one eyed rapeyman is king. 

[gary1979666]

On 11/25/2022 at 3:02 PM, LJS said:

The UK we voted to stay in does not exist any more. 

That could be said over any period - it's constantly changing.  In 2014 it wasn't inconceivable that the Tories would lose their shit over Europe. That's baked in.

[kaosmark2]

3 hours ago, gary1979666 said:

That could be said over any period - it's constantly changing.  In 2014 it wasn't inconceivable that the Tories would lose their shit over Europe. That's baked in.

Exactly. Hence my 'same river' comment.

[LJS]

11 hours ago, gary1979666 said:

That could be said over any period - it's constantly changing.  In 2014 it wasn't inconceivable that the Tories would lose their shit over Europe. That's baked in.

 

8 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

Exactly. Hence my 'same river' comment.

Not quite sure what your points are? We should never be allowed a referendum with even if we vote in a parliament with a majority in favour because things change all the time?

The one question no one ever answers is what we can do to be allowed to decide our future for ourselves?

[kaosmark2]

44 minutes ago, LJS said:

Not quite sure what your points are? We should never be allowed a referendum with even if we vote in a parliament with a majority in favour because things change all the time?

The one question no one ever answers is what we can do to be allowed to decide our future for ourselves?

I mean, what should "once in a generation" mean?

I don't really mind there being more referenda btw, the issue is "lets always have more until we get the result we want", which is what it feels like. When won't there be another excuse?

[gary1979666]

8 hours ago, LJS said:

 

Not quite sure what your points are? We should never be allowed a referendum with even if we vote in a parliament with a majority in favour because things change all the time?

The one question no one ever answers is what we can do to be allowed to decide our future for ourselves?

Like Kaos, I'm fine with more votes, but when it becomes the overriding issue all the time, it gets very tiresome.  It's only 8 years since the last referendum - if Remain wins this time, does it mean another one in 2030?

If Leave had won back in 2014, I'm sure many of the nationalists would be telling anyone who wanted a vote to rejoin the UK that they are sore losers. Much like in the aftermath of the Brexit vote.  Sadly Brexit won't be undone and should Scotland leave the UK, I very much doubt it could rejoin - these are massive decisions and shouldn't be on an 8, 10, 12 year cycle (or fewer had the SNP got their way).

Maybe the SNP should focus some of their energy working on improving Scottish schools and the SNHS, rather that seeking another vote.....