Jump to content

The Dirty Independence Question


Kyelo
 Share

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, Barry Fish said:

I don't follow JK closely but I did when she first made comments and it always came across as concern rather than transphobic or bullying.  She has been very heavily vilified and attacked for this which I found to be disgusting.  What sort of decent society or people do this ?  Lots of nasties on the pro trans side of debate who I think are awful people.  Some really nasty pieces of work.  I would be calling them out if your a decent person as much as I think the right wingers need taking to task.  

Like any argument, including e.g. Scottish Independence, there are nutters on both sides.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Neil said:

The same defeat the legislation has had. Avoid and belittle the discussion rather than find answers. 

The legislation has not been defeated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Often the nutters don't see they are nutters because they are nutters 😛

Food for thought for some lol 

Of course.

Might I suggest you look at the organisations who support the GRA, & those who oppose it.

Might I also suggest you find examples from the more than a dozen countries who have similar legislation already, of the harm that has been caused to women as a result.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A certain children's author is more extreme in her anti-trans campaign than Tommy Robinson is about Muslims. Both equate the group they target to child abusers. Both advocate for the removal of all members of their targeted group from the UK. Only one retweets and cosigns comments saying that that the group they target "shouldn't exist".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

I am only following it vaguely but it seems that some much needed amendments are at least being accepted.  The bill in its original format was at best poor and at worse dangerous.

In the first draft someone who had been convicted of a sex crime could change their gender without any challenge.  Now they would at least have to be fully risk assessed.  Personally I still think that is incredibly weak and there should be an outright ban on this.

Men can be sex pests without pretending to be women. Trans women are not pretending. If you want to protect women, sort out the court system, the police, and everything that actually creates gendered violence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

You seem to live an either or world...   I like to think we can work to get it all right.  I also think you are ignoring the dangers - you ignored the article showing the end game for this type of legislation.  Probably because they don't impact you as a man.

Sorry, Barry, was the article showing the end game for this sort of legislation, the one that took place where this legislation doesn't exist?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Making it easier for this type of crime to be committed.  Its easy to join the dot when you aren't spending time point scoring like this 😛 

I'm sorry if you feel it's "point scoring" Barry, when the only example you can come up with of the danger of this legislation is from a country where this legislation doesn't exist. There are numerous countries where similar legislation exists including the Irish Republic. There should be a tsunami of examples of women being harmed, if the scaremongering is true.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On this issue I don't know what is right or wrong and I'm glad I'm not the one making these decisions. I can see both sides of the argument. I lean towards the SNP position, but also worry that some bad (non trans) people will use it to their advantage. It's encouraging Kaos says that hasnt happened in other countries, but can't be complacent that it won't happen in the future.

Interesting for such a high profile issue I checked a few high profile SNP MP Twitter and it isn't even mentioned. Do they not comment on non Westminster issues, or are they just avoiding a hot potato?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

On this issue I don't know what is right or wrong and I'm glad I'm not the one making these decisions. I can see both sides of the argument. I lean towards the SNP position, but also worry that some bad (non trans) people will use it to their advantage. It's encouraging Kaos says that hasnt happened in other countries, but can't be complacent that it won't happen in the future.

Interesting for such a high profile issue I checked a few high profile SNP MP Twitter and it isn't even mentioned. Do they not comment on non Westminster issues, or are they just avoiding a hot potato?

I think it is worth stressing that this is not just an SNP policy but is broadly supported by Labour, LibDems & the Greens.

 Only the Tories are opposed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From what i've seen of Starmer he appears to be back peddling a bit. Even the Tories have shifted which is why there was that argument between Badenoch and Mordaunt at the leadership contest.

There has definitely been more push back vs say a decade ago on this subject but that appears to be because things are on the table that women were told wouldn't be a decade ago e.g. penises in rape crisis centres or trans women in women's sports etc..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Neil said:

from them not having passed the bill yet.

That's only because the Tories have table a billion amendments. It is expected to be voted on this afternoon and it is expected to pass. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"For Scottish Labour, Pam Duncan-Glancy says the bill is an opportunity to improve lives and tackle inequality.

She says trans people should be recognised for who they are, and the current process needs reform.

"For society to accept them and support them to be their best self without barriers, additional costs or medicalisation," she adds.

Ms Duncan-Glancy says reform of the current "onorous" and "out of touch" system is long overdue.

She says a failure to act has allowed fear and ignorance to prosper - and "a debate that has framed the rights of trans people as a threat to the rights of women, and created a toxic environment that has let down both causes".

She says she recognises legitimate concerns - but believes areas where the bill needs to be improved have been addressed through amendments, adding that Scottish Labour will be supporting the bill."

 

 

Scottish Liberal Democrat leader Alex Cole-Hamilton says his party will vote as one for the bill to pass.

He says he knows some members are not persuaded by the need for reforms and will be struggling. However he says he is confident that over time, the government will build an evidential base that will dispel fears.

Violence against women is matter of huge importance, he says, and it is clear that no provision around the changes in the bill "create new or additional threat to women".

A gender certificate does not change who can or is likely to access single sex spaces, he says.

He points to the Republic of Ireland, where ministers have the power to revoke certificates if information comes to light that would have barred the holder from obtaining one. None there have been revoked, he says.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-scotland-64064250

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, LJS said:

That's only because the Tories have table a billion amendments. It is expected to be voted on this afternoon and it is expected to pass. 

You mean Scots have stopped it going thru 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...