Student Demonstrations

[grumpyhack]

I think the important thing about demonstrations, protests and campaigns generally is to build a broad base of support rather than just the 'usual suspects'.

Back in the 70s in Wales there was a campaign to get a Welsh language fourth TV channel and people were encouraged to join the campaign by refusing to pay their TV licences and go public about it - meaning they'd also have to be prepared to face the consequences, fines etc..

The government finally caved in when leading figures amongst the great and good, including the Archbishop of Wales, announced that they'd become refuseniks. The government realised that they really didn't have the broad mass of the population with them.

Student demos have to be widened to include people from all ages, backgrounds and incomes - or non-incomes to be truly effective.

The other thing to remember is that political parties only really bother to listen when there are elections in the offing - not necessarily national elections but local government too. Cameron and friends won't want to see tory dominated authorities going labour at the next council elections.

[lifelessfool]

How are you being productive if you aren't being disruptive? Sounds EXACTLY like you're sitting round saying 'oh, isn't this terrible', just in a different room.

[dorlomin]

The only reason there are decent non comercial festivals in the UK is because folk like Michael Eavis stood tall and took on the authorities. He hurt no one but did not always obay the pettiest letter of the local law on music festivals. Most of the popular music in this country is played because of pirate radio stations in the English Channel in the 60s or London tower blocks in the 90s.

Music fans of today are listening to their music and enjoying their festies because they are stood on the shoulders of giants. Now is your hour to stand tall, the cuts to universities, the cuts to EMA encouraging young kids to stay in education, the monsterous hike in tuition fees....... they are only one small part of this fight to defend working people against what Naomi Klien callled "The Shock Doctrine", the use of a short term crisis to apply long loved goals.

This is your hour. Old foggies at WOMAD to young hipsters and Glade, time to repay the to those who have gone before you and get on the streets to defend an affordable eduction for all.

Your festivals cost many people more than money, next week find a protest and repay a small part of the debt to those who have gone before you.

[dorlomin]

[Lil' Nick]

Danny Alexander you knob

Does this intensely piss anyone else off? Surely as a Scottish MP he shouldn't be voting at all, let alone trying to influence the way others do?

Edited December 3, 2010 by Lil' Nick

[funkymp]

bump

Quite a lot of protests happening today country wide.

Anyone else stumble across this going around twitter etc yet?

If you can pay £35 a month for an I-phone while earning nothing then (surely) you can pay £7 a month when earning over 21k for an education.

Edited December 9, 2010 by funkymp

[eFestivals]

Pretty fair to be honest...

Weird how most of the media are only focusing on the fees being trebled and not the fact that uni's will be getting pretty significant cuts...

Oh, well, if it's that fair, then lets extend the idea to all education. Let them start paying from age 5, it'll still probably cost less a month than the phone.

Or alternatively, we should value education for itself and not purely for the directly measurable economic benefit it might bring - as we do the schooling from 5 to 18. The value of education is gained by all of society, and not just the individual; all of society should pay for it.

To those who might say 'but that gives it to those who gain the most for free', it doesn't have to be that way. All of society (or a majority of it, anyway) should be able to agree on a tax regime which properly taxes the richer people within society - all of who have got rich via what society has made available to them, via formal education or any other way.

[LondonTom]

It got passed with a majority of 21 Sad times for future students.

[5co77ie]

It got passed with a majority of 21 Sad times for future students.

[lost]

NUS guy on BBC falling in-line with labour and backing a graduate tax, so I take it that's the only alternative being offered as credible now?

Personally speaking I'd have made cuts to other areas but left with a choice of the fee's vs graduate tax would take the former every time.

[Alcatraz]

I think I sided with the argument put across by the likes of Greg Mullholland and the Tory guy I saw speak against them, that this wasn't something to be rushed through. The government clearly hadn't convinced the public that these wouldn't discourage low income prospective students and ultimately its this perception more than the actual workings of the system that will put people off. The budget cuts are savage though :angry:

[brighteyes]

I've now properly read through the details of the rise in tuition fees, all seems reasonable enough to me. I expect most of the students demonstrating have just thought '£9000 a year, wtf' and bandwagonned. Lots of students aren't particularly logical people.

[brighteyes]

yea 9,000 a year what's the problem..?

stupid c**t!

Edited December 9, 2010 by brighteyes

[brighteyes]

i didn't get what you were saying. you seemed to be saying that the 9,000 a year is ok? is that right

I'm 55.... my daughter is hoping to go to uni next year. She's in the middle of Parliament Square, a bit scared, and wanting to come home, but she can't.

I'm angry at the whole effing mess

Edited December 9, 2010 by brighteyes

[lost]

i didn't get what you were saying. you seemed to be saying that the 9,000 a year is ok? is that right

I'm 55.... my daughter is hoping to go to uni next year. She's in the middle of Parliament Square, a bit scared, and wanting to come home, but she can't.

I'm angry at the whole effing mess

[Kowalski]

Some of the objects being thrown by the protesters are quite shocking - breeze block with metal spikes sticking out!

Ben Brown thinks he's back in Kosovo.

[brighteyes]

so...

for a political party to lie about saying that they would do everything to drop fees, and then raise them is ok??

starting their adult life with 30,000 (or at best 20,000) debt is reasonable is it?

[jamiejc]

Oh! Prince Charles car was attacked!!!

The BBC has learned that protesters kicked, threw paint and smashed a window of the car which was travelling along Regent Street in central London.

A Clarence House spokeswoman said the couple were unharmed and were safe and attending the Royal Variety show.

Edited December 9, 2010 by jamiejc

[brighteyes]

the fact that you have to pay that much back at all will put people off... it's unavoidable

[brighteyes]

what's illogical about not wanting to end up 30,000 in debt?

[llcoolphil]

As I previously said holding lectures and educating people outside of universty the reasonings as to why we are protesting. It may not be on a mass scale but at least its an attempt to change the viewpoint that many have which is its just students moaning again. If it was to become disruptive it would just mean lectures couldnt go ahead, which would be fairly counter productive in this debate surely? I wouldnt know what else to suggest that isn't a form of violent protest?

[llcoolphil]

No one likes being in debt, but my point is that whether you are poor or not beforehand is irrelevant, as far as I can see. It should no more put poor students off than it should well-off students.

[llcoolphil]

Or alternatively, we should value education for itself and not purely for the directly measurable economic benefit it might bring - as we do the schooling from 5 to 18. The value of education is gained by all of society, and not just the individual; all of society should pay for it.

To those who might say 'but that gives it to those who gain the most for free', it doesn't have to be that way. All of society (or a majority of it, anyway) should be able to agree on a tax regime which properly taxes the richer people within society - all of who have got rich via what society has made available to them, via formal education or any other way.

[llcoolphil]

If it puts poor students off going to the top universities, they are being very badly advised. If it puts poor students off going to poor universities, all well and good.

[lost]

we've looked into that

it's still an option but she doesn't want to move abroad. I don't think that's unreasonable