Love The Farm, Leave No Trace

[Freewheelin2]

Apologies, know it's been discussed on here at length before, but I attended a Glasto steward training session today and was shocked to hear that in 2014 the festival had to pay £780,000 landfill tax, for rubbish that couldn't be recycled.

The message from GFL is pretty simple: this is crap for the environment and it's money they'd rather be giving to charities. Please think about and encourage others to: bring less stuff, recycle as much as you can when you're at the festival, take your stuff home with you.

I know it's never going to be perfect, most of those posting on here 'get it' and aren't the offenders, but if everyone just makes a bit more effort and encourage those around them to do the same, it'll could a make difference. A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step?

[ManchesterGlasto]

Well said! It's shocking the way people leave their camps sometimes too.

[DeanoL]

Sorry but your figures are inaccurate.

That £780k is not landfill tax, that's the total cost of disposing of all of the waste from the festival, including recycling (the sorting of which means the cost is actually probably higher than the cost of disposing of landfill, even accounting for the extra tax, but there are targets set by the council for recycling that have to be met as a condition on the license).

At the standard rate of £80 a tonne last year, £780,000 in landfill tax would be 9750 tonnes of waste. We're messy but not that bad!

According to this article (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/glastonbury-2014---army-cleaners-3788040) there were 11 tonnes of leftover kit, which would mean a landfil tax of £880 from abandoned campsites (or four tickets' worth) assuming none is recycled.

The vast majority of costs is going to come from the 200 tonnes of (literal) shit and food waste mentioned there. It's also worth noting that cans, plastic bottles and cardboard (pint cups and food containers mostly) account for more than 9x the tonnage of waste that abandoned campsites do, so if you really want to make a difference start carrying your plastic and cardboard back to the tent and home with you, instead of throwing them in the bin.

Now, for environmental reasons, we totally should be recycling where we can and not abandoning stuff BUT if the arguments is we're trying to save the festival money (the clean-up basically costs your £6 of your ticket price) then we should be literally leaving no trace - ie. any rubbish we make during the day we keep with us, goes in a black bag when you get back to the tent, black bag goes home with you.

And the mindset that goes "well that's clearly too much of a faff and effort" is the exact same mindset used by those who abandon tents and gazebos. They just draw the line in a different place.

[Migraine]

This is worth a watch

[ghandi]

Respect to everyone concerned with the clean up operation , I know we as a group never leave anything behind, I wish others were the same. And I am sure that there are others.

[Thearg]

I personally don't think the organisers nail it home enough,they need to focus more on embarrassing people into taking their shit home and not leaving it like a pig sty,they've managed it at other festivals and I know Glastonbury is different,ie being humongous,I guess it's just a question of money,the cost of educating to cost of disposing ratio but a leaflet and black bag as you walk through the gate and a big sign in every campsite saying '' TAKE YOUR SHIT HOME'' wouldn't go a miss.

[DeanoL]

I personally don't think the organisers nail it home enough,they need to focus more on embarrassing people into taking their shit home and not leaving it like a pig sty,they've managed it at other festivals and I know Glastonbury is different,ie being humongous,I guess it's just a question of money,the cost of educating to cost of disposing ratio but a leaflet and black bag as you walk through the gate and a big sign in every campsite saying '' TAKE YOUR SHIT HOME'' wouldn't go a miss.

Yeah it is just the maths. They've been pushing "Leave no trace" for a while, but there's not a hugely compelling arguement for it. There are recycling targets they have to meet as a condition of the license, but they're as a percentage of total waste - that's why we started to see recycling points for camping gear at sites last year. But as those figures show, campsite waste is a tiny proportion of the festival's total waste.

So unlike "don't piss in the streams" it's not something you can do "do this or we lose the festival" argument on.

So it comes down to cost, most of which is in paying people to clean up after us. Like I said, it's £6 of the ticket price. Now, again, were the festival in a position where tickets weren't selling at the current price, and they needed to work out how to drop the price, it might make sense to try and cut those costs. But then, the festival also sells out regardless of who the headliners are. £780,000 sounds like ballpark what Kanye will be getting. So you could achieve similar cuts by just booking a smaller headliner. If they want to give more money to charity, they could start there. Is Kanye, or The Stones, or Springsteen really any more necessary to the festival than people's weird need to make a mess? I mean, the festival would probably sell out without Silver Hayes too, so maybe we should drop that and give another million to charity too? You can go deep down that rabbit hole.

It's an unpleasant truth, but the mess isn't really a problem for the festival. It gets them a bit of bad PR in the days after (but not enough to impact ticket sales) but they can afford to clean it up, is the upshot. Eavis is something of a pragmatist despite the festival's claims of green credentials.

Now, if you're reading this and you're an environmentalist or have strong green views or such, yes, I can totally understand why the mess would be a problem for you. Or you feel it reflects badly on you as a Glastonbury attendee. But then is the question not "what will you do about it?" rather than "what will the festival do about it?" Because it is, essentially, your/our problem, not theirs.

Edited May 30, 2015 by DeanoL

[Mr Splodge]

Simple take everything you bring home, recycle what you can, respect you are being invited into someone's back garden, respect each other. Not forgetting have fun and enjoy the party.

[DeanoL]

Simple take everything you bring home, recycle what you can, respect you are being invited into someone's back garden, respect each other. Not forgetting have fun and enjoy the party.

And while I don't disagree on taking stuff back or recycling stuff, we're not being invited, we paid for it. And percentage of that ticket price has already been specifically earmarked for cleaning up after us.

The whole "you're being extended a privilege" thing isn't true, and that's why those arguments will never get through to those who do litter. They've paid £220 for entry to a festival, not been invited over to a mate's garden for a barbecue.

[DeanoL]

Oh and my solution would be to say "look, we spend nearly a million quid clearing up after you, if we made half as much mess, we could cut that right down. The ticket price is going up by a fiver next year. If we reduce waste by 30%, we'll cut the price rise to £3"

[Thearg]

Yeah it is just the maths. They've been pushing "Leave no trace" for a while, but there's not a hugely compelling arguement for it. There are recycling targets they have to meet as a condition of the license, but they're as a percentage of total waste - that's why we started to see recycling points for camping gear at sites last year. But as those figures show, campsite waste is a tiny proportion of the festival's total waste.

So unlike "don't piss in the streams" it's not something you can do "do this or we lose the festival" argument on.

So it comes down to cost, most of which is in paying people to clean up after us. Like I said, it's £6 of the ticket price. Now, again, were the festival in a position where tickets weren't selling at the current price, and they needed to work out how to drop the price, it might make sense to try and cut those costs. But then, the festival also sells out regardless of who the headliners are. £780,000 sounds like ballpark what Kanye will be getting. So you could achieve similar cuts by just booking a smaller headliner. If they want to give more money to charity, they could start there. Is Kanye, or The Stones, or Springsteen really any more necessary to the festival than people's weird need to make a mess? I mean, the festival would probably sell out without Silver Hayes too, so maybe we should drop that and give another million to charity too? You can go deep down that rabbit hole.

It's an unpleasant truth, but the mess isn't really a problem for the festival. It gets them a bit of bad PR in the days after (but not enough to impact ticket sales) but they can afford to clean it up, is the upshot. Eavis is something of a pragmatist despite the festival's claims of green credentials.

Now, if you're reading this and you're an environmentalist or have strong green views or such, yes, I can totally understand why the mess would be a problem for you. Or you feel it reflects badly on you as a Glastonbury attendee. But then is the question not "what will you do about it?" rather than "what will the festival do about it?" Because it is, essentially, your/our problem, not theirs.

No not a campaigner or anything just a normal person who doesn't like a mess,not saying our campsite is an oasis or anything but we always have a bin liner on the go,who wants to sit with beer cans and takeaway boxes around them,just brings you down first thing in the morning,yes we all have to do our bit but a little education would go a long way afteral as you say it worked with the not pissing in the streams especially when Emily came on the stage to reprimand us all.

And all the extra urinals helped of course.

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

This is worth a watch

It was worth a watch, thanks for posting.

[DeanoL]

as you say it worked with the not pissing in the streams especially when Emily came on the stage to reprimand us all.

That worked because the festival was under threat. It's kinda like the discussion about the smoking ban in the vaping thread. Plenty of people though smoking indoors was anti-social and rude, and that everywhere would be nicer if people would stop doing it. But a ban only came into force once passive smoking was shown to be a thing and there was an actual threat to people's lives that could be demonstrated. And even then a lot of people weren't happy.

Yeah, it'd be nicer if people didn't litter. Would also be nicer if people didn't drink to excess and get aggressive too. Hell, Eavis is on record as saying in his opinion the festival would be better if people didn't do as many drugs...

My point is just that it's not a big problem for the festival. Not like the noise was, not like the over-crowding was, and not like the stream-pissing was. It's over-stated as it's something that's very visible post-festival, indeed, it's impossible to avoid. But the festival can afford the clean up. The question is if the planet can afford it.

[shoptildrop]

And while I don't disagree on taking stuff back or recycling stuff, we're not being invited, we paid for it. And percentage of that ticket price has already been specifically earmarked for cleaning up after us.

The whole "you're being extended a privilege" thing isn't true, and that's why those arguments will never get through to those who do litter. They've paid £220 for entry to a festival, not been invited over to a mate's garden for a barbecue.

while yes we all have paid for the ticket it doesn't mean you have to be a pig and leave all your sh*t everywhere, it's just common curtsey you put rubbish in the bin and you take all your stuff back home with you just like you would anywhere...

TBH my 1st time at Glasto in 2010 I was gobsmacked how much stuff people left behind, I thought V was bad but Glasto was a whole new level tbf, crazy!!!

Edited May 31, 2015 by shoptildrop

[DeanoL]

while yes we all have paid for the ticket it doesn't mean you have to be a pig and leave all your sh*t everywhere, it's just common curtsey you put rubbish in the bin and you take all your stuff back home with you just like you would anywhere...

Absolutely. You don't like the mess. It's embarrassing. I feel the same way. But why is that the festival's problem, and not ours?

[verrymerry]

Arcadia have a nice idea this year, anyone who brings them (3?) bags of recycling* will be given a free tshirt

*may also be rubbish but I think it was just recycling, should have checked my facts first really!

[smytho15]

This amazes me the little nitrous canisters don't weigh much so how many does it take to get 2t

http://www.glastonburyfestivals.co.uk/nitrous-oxide-not-welcome-in-the-festivals-sacred-space/

[DeanoL]

About 20g empty so 100,000 of them?!

[swede]

Hell, Eavis is on record as saying in his opinion the festival would be better if people didn't do as many drugs

Utter madness from eavis right there

[Dillyblue]

Could GF do a bit better with the daily food and drink waste/containers? If bins are placed next to the food stalls counters, they do get used. Not all stalls have bins and it all ends up on the ground. Such a terrible mess sometimes! If every stall had bins, that might help!!

As we know, there are a lot of bins (and beautifully decorated!) all round the site but they get very full (so people are trying) and badly overflow so even more bins needed or emptying more frequently?....

[giantkatestacks]

dilly, the bins cant be emptied all day because its just too dangerous to get the trucks round when it gets busy. Rubbish trucks and drunk punters/crowds dont mix well.

Its the campsites that need to improve really, the markets etc look bad but dont actually take long to clear of a morning.

[shoptildrop]

Could GF do a bit better with the daily food and drink waste/containers? If bins are placed next to the food stalls counters, they do get used. Not all stalls have bins and it all ends up on the ground. Such a terrible mess sometimes! If every stall had bins, that might help!!

As we know, there are a lot of bins (and beautifully decorated!) all round the site but they get very full (so people are trying) and badly overflow so even more bins needed or emptying more frequently?....

The ones round the Park area are shocking as they simply fill right up dead quick, so people are just leaving stuff heaped near by or on the table.

I am assuming bins don't get emptied during the festival which in key areas is noticeable - does anyone know the reasons for this?

Edit - just seen reply above

Edited May 31, 2015 by shoptildrop

[Dillyblue]

Thanks giantkatestacks, I understand! And agree shoptildrop The Park is particularly bad for overflowing bins.

Perhaps bins for every food stall and more bins in The Park is not feasible. I am sure it is a huge job already.

[Splonk]

Back in the day an announcement would be made from the Pyramid before an act, asking everyone to pick up any litter laying around them.

Generally, an awful lot of people did so.

As for camping mess: as suggested on other threads - how about rewarding people who have clearly made an effort to clean up their camping site with some kind of special advantage on ticket sales day. i.e an individual promo code that increases the chances of getting a ticket.

It wouldn't cost them a penny - it would raise awareness and reward good wombling.

[chazwwe]

Back in the day an announcement would be made from the Pyramid before an act, asking everyone to pick up any litter laying around them.

Generally, an awful lot of people did so.

As for camping mess: as suggested on other threads - how about rewarding people who have clearly made an effort to clean up their camping site with some kind of special advantage on ticket sales day. i.e an individual promo code that increases the chances of getting a ticket.

It wouldn't cost them a penny - it would raise awareness and reward good wombling.

I disagree with that reward, maybe a bar/food stall reward token yes but an advance on ticket sales is unfair on people who either A. Don't know about it or B. New comers.