Kneecap

[fraybentos1]

5 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

Context my dear bentos, context. 

My point is I find it disgusting in any context.

 

What are your thoughts on them apologising to the families of the murdered MPs? SUrely they should have stood their ground if they did nothing wrong. Quite pathetic to apologise really

[steviewevie]

The whole art and free speech argument is bollocks. Obviously there are limits, just depends where those limits are.

[radioahed]

9 minutes ago, Physical_graffiti said:

 

whilst true, you can use that argument to justify censoring absolutely anything. Charles manson interpreted some beatles songs as cause to start a race war for example. I think you've got to assume 99.999999999% people see it as a joke.

Yeah I do totally see your point. The band just have to be okay with if anything happened to an MP they would be partly responsible. eg someone from that gig went home and plotted to kill an MP (I know it didn't happen and is a 0.0000001% of it happening)They would have to be okay taking responsibility on it and the repercussions of that.

 

[Nobby's Old Boots]

12 minutes ago, Physical_graffiti said:

First point - Well then I guess we disagree here. I just think we're in an insane world if we're taking anything said on stage, in song lyrics etc literally. 

So are we not to take any of their activism seriously either then? Because that's very prevalent in their lyrics and when they're on stage...

 

I think this time they've gone too far and the apology was misguided in tone, but I believe they have had a positive impact with their activism overall, so I don't know why you would say anything they say shouldn't be taken seriously - just because the things they said this time were misjudged or inflammatory.

 

That's why it seems like a cop out, because lyrics and stage presence etc are VERY important for political music and to try and dismiss that rather than just realising they have crossed the line this time doesn't ring true for me.

[Colorblindjames]

3 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

My point is I find it disgusting in any context.

 

What are your thoughts on them apologising to the families of the murdered MPs? SUrely they should have stood their ground if they did nothing wrong. Quite pathetic to apologise really

What are your thoughts on 3 working class kids being held to a higher moral standard than a bunch of MPs blowing up children in Gaza? 

[Mand3]

6 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

And?

That's the link

[Physical_graffiti]

5 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

My point is I find it disgusting in any context.

 

What are your thoughts on them apologising to the families of the murdered MPs? SUrely they should have stood their ground if they did nothing wrong. Quite pathetic to apologise really

as you have every right to - but whether you personally find them disgusting or pathetic or not is irrelevant to a conversation on whether bands should be allowed to say controversial stuff on stage that is obviously not to be taken literally without the government censoring them from performing at private musical festivals

[TheDayman]

So, as the push for Kneecap rolls on, do we get to "cancel" Israel, too?

I have continuously said that I'm very disappointed with what the lads said, but I find it absolutely baffling that people can't see what's really happening here. 

It's not so long ago that Sinead O'Connor bravely ripped up a photo of the Pope to a US audience in protest of the child abuse that was happening under the church's watch.

People were outraged by what she did, and subsequently, she was threatened and shamed in a consistent and coordinated attack. She lost multiple gigs and record deals. She never recovered.

Her reasoning was right, however. The true depth of what was happening in the church we would only discover years later.

Israel is committing genocide in Gaza. This is widely agreed upon by multiple aid agencies, international human rights organisations and courts.

Hamas and Hezbollah didn't appear in a vacuum, just like the IRA didn't. These lads grew up in a world that likely very few, if any, here can truly relate to. I can understand how they have found similarities and shared histories, with the people of Palestine.

What Kneecap did was wrong, in particular the single MP comment, but let's not be gaslit into believing that this was their message.

The true and original message - and the message that triggered all of this controversy before any historical videos were combed through for dirt - was "F**k Israel, Free Palestine".

This is the message that angered people and this is what led Sharon Osbourne and others in the industry to lobby for their shows to be cancelled.

I've no doubt that if the comments re: MP's, Hamas and Hezbollah had never happened, we'd still be here arguing why they should or shouldn't be cancelled.

 

 

[Physical_graffiti]

5 minutes ago, Nobby's Old Boots said:

So are we not to take any of their activism seriously either then? Because that's very prevalent in their lyrics and when they're on stage...

 

I think this time they've gone too far and the apology was misguided in tone, but I believe they have had a positive impact with their activism overall, so I don't know why you would say anything they say shouldn't be taken seriously - just because the things they said this time were misjudged or inflammatory.

 

That's why it seems like a cop out, because lyrics and stage presence etc are VERY important for political music and to try and dismiss that rather than just realising they have crossed the line this time doesn't ring true for me.

I didn't say we "shouldn't take anything they say seriously". I said, when they say "kill your local MP" on stage, that this is obviously not an actual threat and that shouldn't be taken literally. 

[Jerman72]

I suppose you can be free to say dispicible things, but then music venues have the freedom to cancel your booking if you booking is going to be too much hassle

[fraybentos1]

1 minute ago, Colorblindjames said:

What are your thoughts on 3 working class kids being held to a higher moral standard than a bunch of MPs blowing up children in Gaza? 

Don't ask daft questions if you want serious answers. Maybe try phrase that one better and ill reply

[Jacko45]

I think this is a classic case, and were all maybe guilty in some respects.

 

You tend to want to defend someone or something you like - Kneecap fans will obviously want to see them perform and back them to the hilt.

 

But saying "Kill Your MP" regardless of context is just a vile stupid thing to say, particularly after the murders that have actually occured here in recent memory.

 

You can stand for whatever, but saying things like that will garner a huge negative response and they'll need to accept that. 

[CaledonianGonzo]

I'm sure Toby Young and the Free Speech Union will be taking up the Kneecap cause, and I look forward to Brendan O'Neill's furious article in their defence

[fraybentos1]

6 minutes ago, Mand3 said:

That's the link

ok, fair yeah this stuff has resurfaced due to their coachella performance I get you but if you say daft stuff like what they have done they're always at risk of repercussions to that. Festivals that book them have corporate interest and Kneecap are worried about losing out on cash now so have apologised. Bit pathetic imo.

 

5 minutes ago, Physical_graffiti said:

as you have every right to - but whether you personally find them disgusting or pathetic or not is irrelevant to a conversation on whether bands should be allowed to say controversial stuff on stage that is obviously not to be taken literally without the government censoring them from performing at private musical festivals

well the gov can't really do that and I don't think they should be that involved tbh. I dunno why Eden cancelled their booking but I guess it's more to do with sponsors than parliament.

[Skip997]

15 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

The whole art and free speech argument is bollocks. Obviously there are limits, just depends where those limits are.

No it’s not. It’s very important. Do people really want a sterilised arts scene where all content has to be approved by politicians?

[TheDayman]

1 hour ago, Little Andy said:

Did Kneecap actually say 'Up Hamas' at some point? When? Even if some people are arguing they didn't mean it seriously, it seems a crazy thing to say for a band in support of Palestinian rights. If my knowledge is correct, Hamas not only terrorise Israeli citizens, but Palestinians as well (hence the huge recent anti-Hamas protests in Gaza continuing, despite Hamas murdering some of the protesters).

If I've understood all this correctly, this is why I won't be surprised if Glastonbury don't let Kneecap play. I'm not sure how many in this thread attended last year's Left Field 'Israel Palestine: Hope and Solidarity' debate, but I understood the panel to be very for peace for all peaceful Palestinians and Israelis against the atrocities of both the Israeli Government and Hamas.

Why does "Up Hamas" trigger this when their whole act is linked to Irish republicanism?

[CaledonianGonzo]

17 minutes ago, TheDayman said:

So, as the push for Kneecap rolls on, do we get to "cancel" Israel, too?

 

I mean this is the aim of BDS

 

 

[fraybentos1]

11 minutes ago, Skip997 said:

No it’s not. It’s very important. Do people really want a sterilised arts scene where all content has to be approved by politicians?

There's quite a lot of middle ground there

[lazyred]

24 minutes ago, Colorblindjames said:

What are your thoughts on 3 working class kids being held to a higher moral standard than a bunch of MPs blowing up children in Gaza? 

How working class are they? One of them was a teacher. Another ran a music business whilst a student. They are in their 20s and 30's not 18 so they know what they are doing. It looks like manufactured radical chic like the Clash wearing Red Brigade / Red Army Faction t-shirts.

[TheDayman]

3 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

 

I mean this is the aim of BDS

 

 

If only they had a fraction of the power and influence of the other side...

[Mand3]

13 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

ok, fair yeah this stuff has resurfaced due to their coachella performance I get you but if you say daft stuff like what they have done they're always at risk of repercussions to that. Festivals that book them have corporate interest and Kneecap are worried about losing out on cash now so have apologised. Bit pathetic imo.

Yeah it's a stupid thing to say and they could get in trouble for it. I guess I'm just disappointed that the media aren't talking about the genocide too. 

 

Our Prime Minister said of Israel "she has the right to defend herself". 

[TheDayman]

5 minutes ago, lazyred said:

How working class are they? One of them was a teacher. Another ran a music business whilst a student. They are in their 20s and 30's not 18 so they know what they are doing. It looks like manufactured radical chic like the Clash wearing Red Brigade / Red Army Faction t-shirts.

I'd suggest you do some research on West Belfast during the Troubles before questioning their background...

Edited April 30, 2025 by TheDayman

[Dark Star]

2 hours ago, rwhitehouse13 said:

We currently have a Labour MP here so this isn’t strictly accurate.

 

Nor is calling most of the government Labour in anything other than name! 🤣

[CaledonianGonzo]

6 minutes ago, TheDayman said:

If only they had a fraction of the power and influence of the other side...

 

Well, indeed.

[Nobby's Old Boots]

26 minutes ago, Physical_graffiti said:

I didn't say we "shouldn't take anything they say seriously". I said, when they say "kill your local MP" on stage, that this is obviously not an actual threat and that shouldn't be taken literally. 

You said - "I just think we're in an insane world if we're taking anything said on stage, in song lyrics etc literally. "

 

So I guess I just don't understand this sentiment when their whole act and persona is based around the politics, which are very specifically referenced in their lyrics and on stage actions/words.

So my point is, are we only supposed to take what they say seriously when it suits us, and not when they say "Up Hamas" etc? When they're saying "Free Palestine" as an implication that we should be paying attention to and supporting their struggle, are we supposed to not take that literally? Surely you see the contradiction there.