UK Politics

[stuie]

2 minutes ago, lazyred said:

He should have gone to sweden to be tried for sex offences but he shouldn't be sent to the usa for publishing the truth. 

I was under the impression the sex offences were a smokescreen and made up to get him extradited? 

[lazyred]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

I think he's ok....but this was a tricky situation, and maybe he's screwed up...some suggestions Labour threatened to kick him out after election if he didn't do this which is dodgy as f**k if true...but also that many Labour MPs felt threatened by protesters etc and asked him to take this into account.

In the end the whole thing is absurd, westminster playing party politics with the devastation happening in Gaza. Shameful really.

I'm surprised labour are briefing they blackmailed the speaker. I'm glad they'll come out of this still united. None of it matters to gaza

[kaosmark2]

3 hours ago, lost said:

I see lots of stuff on reducing meat consumption out there. I'm not saying its impossible to get enough protein from nuts and the like but its far more difficult and I would guess the majority don't have the self discipline.

There's also a thing of it often takes more time/knowledge to cook nuts and pulses into a functional meal than it does to cook cheap meat. Certainly if you're relying on the cheaper stuff. Sure, bulk bags of lentils are cheap, but to cook them properly you should be pre-soaking them, then draining then stewing them. Compare that to grilling a few sausages. By contrast, if you look at snacking nuts as your primary protein source, you're going to be paying huge amounts.

I'd generally say that our society largely has meat consumption at extremes - people who have meat in virtually every meal and over-eat it, or veggie/vegans who never touch it. 

[steviewevie]

Just now, lazyred said:

I'm surprised labour are briefing they blackmailed the speaker. I'm glad they'll come out of this still united. None of it matters to gaza

Labour have denied it...who knows what is going on.

[lazyred]

1 minute ago, stuie said:

I was under the impression the sex offences were a smokescreen and made up to get him extradited? 

I thought he used the etradition threat from Sweden to dodge the sex offence case. Who knows now. He seems a wierdo but  the wikileaks stuff should be defended as proper  journalism

[Nobody Interesting]

6 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

There's also a thing of it often takes more time/knowledge to cook nuts and pulses into a functional meal than it does to cook cheap meat. Certainly if you're relying on the cheaper stuff. Sure, bulk bags of lentils are cheap, but to cook them properly you should be pre-soaking them, then draining then stewing them. Compare that to grilling a few sausages. By contrast, if you look at snacking nuts as your primary protein source, you're going to be paying huge amounts.

I'd generally say that our society largely has meat consumption at extremes - people who have meat in virtually every meal and over-eat it, or veggie/vegans who never touch it. 

Red lentils don't need pre soaking.

I am a veggie of a long time and have no hassles getting more than enough protein, I have more muscle mass now than when I ate meat.

[kaosmark2]

3 minutes ago, stuie said:

I was under the impression the sex offences were a smokescreen and made up to get him extradited? 

He and his supporters claim that. This is the effective charge:

https://rapecrisis.org.uk/get-informed/types-of-sexual-violence/what-is-stealthing/#:~:text=The definition or meaning of,can be prosecuted for rape.

Extradition to Sweden for these charges should have happened IMO. I'm not going to presume guilt/innocence but I don't think there's anything to suggest the Swedish courts would be fixed.

Extradition to the USA for wikileaks shouldn't be happening, as I fully believe that'd be torturing him and no fair trial, but everything about Swedish rights/extradition makes it look like he's trying to dodge the sexual offence charges.

[kaosmark2]

1 minute ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Red lentils don't need pre soaking.

I am a veggie of a long time and have no hassles getting more than enough protein, I have more muscle mass now than when I ate meat.

I'm not saying that it's impossible, I'm saying that people's circumstances vary and it's often quite classist to try and judge someone's diet and shopping habits.

[Nobody Interesting]

3 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I'm not saying that it's impossible, I'm saying that people's circumstances vary and it's often quite classist to try and judge someone's diet and shopping habits.

Oh it very much is classist to judge like that and I hate it with passion................... was just pointing out red lentils don't need soaking and protein is plentiful away from meat. Stopping home economics at school was a huge huge error.

There are sadly too many people who simply like to judge others whilst not taking any notice of failings they may be making themselves.

Edited February 21 by Nobody Interesting

[gizmoman]

6 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

He and his supporters claim that. This is the effective charge:

https://rapecrisis.org.uk/get-informed/types-of-sexual-violence/what-is-stealthing/#:~:text=The definition or meaning of,can be prosecuted for rape.

Extradition to Sweden for these charges should have happened IMO. I'm not going to presume guilt/innocence but I don't think there's anything to suggest the Swedish courts would be fixed.

Extradition to the USA for wikileaks shouldn't be happening, as I fully believe that'd be torturing him and no fair trial, but everything about Swedish rights/extradition makes it look like he's trying to dodge the sexual offence charges.

The "rape" charges were just too convenient, clearly set up, Assange knew as soon as he was in custody for anything the US would extradite him, that is why he avoided custody in Sweden and tried to avoid it in the UK, no chance of a fair trial in the US, (or in the UK either if Neil got on the jury).

[kaosmark2]

20 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

Oh it very much is classist to judge like that and I hate it with passion................... was just pointing out red lentils don't need soaking and protein is plentiful away from meat. Stopping home economics at school was a huge huge error.

There are sadly too many people who simply like to judge others whilst not taking any notice of failings they may be making themselves.

Yeah. I don't like bringing my personal choices around these things into arguments like this because it comes from my own opportunities. That said, if I'm in the middle of a 14hr work day and somewhere that knows me as a staff member of a local business offers me a 1/2 price or free burger there's 0 chance I'm turning that down. I try and make decisions but I'm going to be kind for the times circumstances don't allow me them. I also know other people don't even has as much luxury around these choices as I do.

Edited February 21 by kaosmark2

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

 

[clarkete]

30 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

The "rape" charges were just too convenient, clearly set up

You should be wary of making such sweeping judgements. 

The Swedish prosecutor said "I would like to emphasize that the injured party has submitted a credible and reliable version of events. Her statements have been coherent, extensive and detailed" 

Their reasons for dropping were due to the passage of time. 

https://www.npr.org/2019/11/19/780743412/swedish-prosecutor-ends-investigation-into-julian-assange-over-rape-claims

[gizmoman]

15 minutes ago, clarkete said:

You should be wary of making such sweeping judgements. 

The Swedish prosecutor said "I would like to emphasize that the injured party has submitted a credible and reliable version of events. Her statements have been coherent, extensive and detailed" 

Their reasons for dropping were due to the passage of time. 

https://www.npr.org/2019/11/19/780743412/swedish-prosecutor-ends-investigation-into-julian-assange-over-rape-claims

And maybe you should be a bit more sceptical, a statement from a prosecutor is hardly a balanced view. "Injured party" who has determined there was an injured party? If it was a set up by the Americans you would expect a credible accusation, if the motive was to get him into custody in order to extradite the underlying accusation didn't matter, it could be dropped later. Sexual assaults are one of the hardest to prove and disprove, usually one persons word against another's, an ideal case for this. BTW there were 2 girls involved, why was only one referred to here?

[Crazyfool01]

37 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

Always amazes me to look at the benches during some of these debates and how empty they are at points … massive issue this yet one side of the house is pretty sparsely populated 

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

Always amazes me to look at the benches during some of these debates and how empty they are at points … massive issue this yet one side of the house is pretty sparsely populated 

I guess most know how they're going to vote already...and yes it is a massive issue, but one that parliament can make a negligible difference to.

[steviewevie]

 

[Ozanne]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

I was just about to post that, I think the Speakers don’t the right thing to be fair to him. 

[clarkete]

24 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

And maybe you should be a bit more sceptical, a statement from a prosecutor is hardly a balanced view. "Injured party" who has determined there was an injured party? If it was a set up by the Americans you would expect a credible accusation, if the motive was to get him into custody in order to extradite the underlying accusation didn't matter, it could be dropped later. Sexual assaults are one of the hardest to prove and disprove, usually one persons word against another's, an ideal case for this. BTW there were 2 girls involved, why was only one referred to here?

I saw something about it several years ago and from what they covered it seemed to have some credibility, hence I'm equally as wary of those like yourself who clearly have their own agenda. 

[Crazyfool01]

20 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I guess most know how they're going to vote already...and yes it is a massive issue, but one that parliament can make a negligible difference to.

Yeah probably … just the same people will go on about the lazy . If they all back it and prevent munitions delivery’s it is significant and pressure mounts , although I guess just this country on its own might not be decisive , a collective will 

[gizmoman]

2 minutes ago, clarkete said:

I saw something about it several years ago and from what they covered it seemed to have some credibility, hence I'm equally as wary of those like yourself who clearly have their own agenda. 

I've no agenda, I was just pointing out the similarities between Navalny and Assange, both enemies of the (different) state, both locked up for years without due process, Navalny now dead, Assange may well suffer a similar fate.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Crazyfool01 said:

Yeah probably … just the same people will go on about the lazy . If they all back it and prevent munitions delivery’s it is significant and pressure mounts , although I guess just this country on its own might not be decisive , a collective will 

it's not going to prevent munition deliveries...and Israel only get a fraction from us anyway...

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, steviewevie said:

it's not going to prevent munition deliveries...and Israel only get a fraction from us anyway...

1 bomb or 10 still saves lives … still makes a difference to those under them fraction or not . Pressure will and is growing .