Primavera Sound Barcelona 2023 + Primavera Sound Madrid 2023

[BenG92]

9 minutes ago, kitkat129 said:

She might have had 3 multi-platinum albums, but I had honestly never heard any of her songs before I checked her out on Spotify a few days ago, I have barely seen her name mentioned anywhere, she doesn't have a recognizable hit song, she is not hyped in any way, at least not here in Europe. I just don't really understand how she is a headliner at a festival like Primavera, are there truly people who will buy tickets to the festival because Halsey is headlining? Am I missing something?

I'm listening to her latest album now and I find it extremely boring, her singing is grating and there's nothing interesting about her music... Then again, I never really cared for the headliners at Primavera, the mid-sized names and the incredible undercard have always been what made the festival interesting for me, but I just don't really understand the 2023 line-up and how they chose the headliners, Halsey and Calvin Harris are easily the worst headliners in the history of Primavera (yes, even worse than J Balvin)

 

Okay, but again, "I haven't personally heard her and I don't like her" isn't really an argument against her being a top line name. We already know that PS has a wide berth of headliners, again if you look at the poster from last year you'll see Jorja Smith next to Nick Cave in the same sized font, the latter doing a set literally twice as long containing songs from over 10 albums next to her 1. People put way too much stock into those font sizes. Halsey will probably play an hour set before a longer Blur one.

And Halsey and Calvis Harris alone might look weak but in the same year that you get Blur, Pet Shop Boys, Kendrick, Depeche Mode and Rosalia, it's fantastic. Seeing three of those names in the UK would cost more than a PS23 ticket.

[SwallowOrSleepOnTheWetSpot]

Halsey is a bigger name than Jorja and thus arguably a more deserving headliner. But there better be good counter-programming opposite her set.

[kitkat129]

1 hour ago, BenG92 said:

Okay, but again, "I haven't personally heard her and I don't like her" isn't really an argument against her being a top line name. We already know that PS has a wide berth of headliners, again if you look at the poster from last year you'll see Jorja Smith next to Nick Cave in the same sized font, the latter doing a set literally twice as long containing songs from over 10 albums next to her 1. People put way too much stock into those font sizes. Halsey will probably play an hour set before a longer Blur one.

And Halsey and Calvis Harris alone might look weak but in the same year that you get Blur, Pet Shop Boys, Kendrick, Depeche Mode and Rosalia, it's fantastic. Seeing three of those names in the UK would cost more than a PS23 ticket.

Sure, I don't really like what I have heard from her, but that wasn't my argument and it's not about my personal preferences (I couldn't care less for Kendrick Lamar but I would obviously never question why he is a headliner), Halsey is objectively a small name in Europe, she doesn't have a dedicated fanbase and/or hit singles like Lorde or Carly Rae Jepsen, it's just really odd to see her headlining. You have a point with Jorja Smith, but the difference is that Nick Cave, Gorillaz and Tyler were also headlining on the same day, I would argue that the 2022 W1 Saturday was one of the most stacked line-ups ever in Primavera history, the 2023 Thursday line-up is pretty weak in comparison. Halsey headlining would be less of an issue it it if there was a third headliner and some more prominent mid-sized names, but right now that isn't the situation. 

 

1 hour ago, SwallowOrSleepOnTheWetSpot said:

Halsey is a bigger name than Jorja and thus arguably a more deserving headliner. But there better be good counter-programming opposite her set.

2023 Thursday main stage: Blur, Halsey and... NxWorries? Loyle Carner? Central Cee?

2022 W1 Saturday main stage: Einstürzende Neubauten, Jorja Smith, Nick Cave, Gorillaz, Tyler

Not really comparable, imo. Don't get me wrong, I'd be fine with having a less stacked lineup after the 2022 edition, but I still feel that 2023 is lackluster by Primavera standards.

[lighthouse]

15 minutes ago, kitkat129 said:

2023 Thursday main stage: Blur, Halsey and... NxWorries? Loyle Carner? Central Cee?

2022 W1 Saturday main stage: Einstürzende Neubauten, Jorja Smith, Nick Cave, Gorillaz, Tyler

Not really comparable, imo. Don't get me wrong, I'd be fine with having a less stacked lineup after the 2022 edition, but I still feel that 2023 is lackluster by Primavera standards.

You are acting as if Ghost isnt a massive name, headlining big festivals in their own right while being put on a second line here. And NxWorries is a very interesting booking and one of the most exciting curveballs on the lineup too. Very curious about that one live. 

 

[livenstu]

I'd argue that this edition is more stacked than 2022 for me, and that is including the 2 weekends I attended.

I found myself discovering a lot more in the build up to 2022, whereas by comparison this year I'm already anxious about the pile up that is Thursday & Friday...  Darkside, Le Tigre, NXWORRIES, Turnstile, Alex G, Arthur Verocai, Boris, Emeralds, Perfume, PinkPantheress, Sudan Archives, Kendrick, Depeche Mode, Four Tet, Sparks, Alvvays, Daphni, Japanese Breakfast, Julia Holter, The Delgados, Karate, Julia Jacklin, Unwound, Beth Orton & Soul Glo... ooft!

Saturday maybe a bit less crowded (or at least with the bigger names I've already seen live), but still FKA Twigs, St Vincent, My Morning Jacket, Death Grips, Ezra Furman, Gilla Band, John Cale, Laurie Anderson, JPEGMAFIA & Two Shell.

Thank god Pet Shop Boys are clash free on the Wednesday.

 

Edited December 3, 2022 by livenstu

[Fabrizzo]

39 minutes ago, livenstu said:

Thank god Pet Shop Boys are clash free on the Wednesday.

Yes but there is no certainty of entering the forum because it will be free for all ...

[xxialac]

12 minutes ago, Fabrizzo said:

Yes but there is no certainty of entering the forum because it will be free for all ...

I'm pretty sure there'll find a way to let everyone in. Maybe some priority for ticketholders even. 

And I'd be surprised if they don't just open up Mordor for this. to reflect bigger capacity and prominence of headliner.

[livenstu]

14 minutes ago, Fabrizzo said:

Yes but there is no certainty of entering the forum because it will be free for all ...

This is where I pat myself on the back for getting a Tuesday flight, not Wednesday.  Will happily get to the forum early if they don't offer priority passes for ticket holders.

[livenstu]

Am I the only one to miss we have an Elijah Wood DJ Set on the Sat??

https://ew.com/article/2015/01/27/elijah-woods-wooden-wisdom-project-proves-hes-more-than-just-a-celebrity-dj/

[xxialac]

55 minutes ago, livenstu said:

Am I the only one to miss we have an Elijah Wood DJ Set on the Sat??

https://ew.com/article/2015/01/27/elijah-woods-wooden-wisdom-project-proves-hes-more-than-just-a-celebrity-dj/

Good spot! Graham Coxon is also playing Ciutat with his new bond. 

Probably some others like that...

The other thing I noticed is that they are describing this as the 20th Primavera Sound.

Which is bizarre as it will be the 21st.

[Matt1976]

1 hour ago, livenstu said:

This is where I pat myself on the back for getting a Tuesday flight, not Wednesday.  Will happily get to the forum early if they don't offer priority passes for ticket holders.

I land around 11am on the Wednesday. So depending on what time the dreaded queuing starts I might be ok at a push. 

[ConfidenceMan]

Are we really still debating Halsey as a headliner? Not having heard of an act isn't a sign they're unworthy. Or that you're cool. The festival is changing its approach the last few years-the fact that most of us can look at this bill, hate a headline act and still a dozen names we want to see is very impressive. 

And, it may not be the most important metric, but if we really have to keep re litigating it... 

- Blur has 8m monthly listens on Spotify 

- Kendrick Lamar has 38m

- Halsey has over 40m

The way people consume music has changed. The way people identify with the music they like has changed. That's why popstars headline festivals alongside rock musicians and rappers. Im not suggesting people need to like any or all of them, but man this has been a tiresome few days on this forum if we could maaaybe move on a little. 

Also. I'm Not A Woman, I'm A God is a tune. But I won't be going near that set..!

[xxialac]

I don't care for Halsey but I console myself thinking it's one act out of 200 and there are bands playing 7 or 8 other nicer stages at the same time.

[kitkat129]

4 hours ago, lighthouse said:

You are acting as if Ghost isnt a massive name, headlining big festivals in their own right while being put on a second line here. And NxWorries is a very interesting booking and one of the most exciting curveballs on the lineup too. Very curious about that one live. 

Idk, Ghost might be pretty big in their genre, but I just don't really see them as a headliner for Primavera. I absolutely agree that NxWorries is a great booking and I have been waiting to see Anderson .Paak since forever, I was not judging the music, my point was that basically none of the names on the second line are big enough to be considered a headliner. I love Darkside (them and NxWorries are among the few Thursday names that I would love to see), but I'm surprised to see them billed that high, I didn't think they were that popular, the whole line-up looks like a mess to me somehow...

5 hours ago, livenstu said:

I'd argue that this edition is more stacked than 2022 for me, and that is including the 2 weekends I attended.

Ah well, good for you, I wish it was the same for me. I do think there's quality in the undercard, but most of the headliners and second line names are underwhelming, also many of the artists that I like I have already seen at Primavera (or elsewhere). I still haven't decided if I should go or not, with the cost of accomodation and everything I'm not sure if it's worth it just to see a dozen small bands 😕

[MeMeMeM]

3 hours ago, xxialac said:

I don't care for Halsey but I console myself thinking it's one act out of 200 and there are bands playing 7 or 8 other nicer stages at the same time.

I don't care for Halsey either, nor Calvin Harrys nor Maneskin, to name a few. For me, the problem is that Primavera is trying to get bigger and bigger, and for that they need names like this, names that are not cheap, I guess. And because of that, tickets are getting more and more expensive. You are now paying 325 € + fees to see Unwound, Karate and The Moldy Peaches, which many of us cannot afford.

Primavera was, in the past, super well curated, with a very reasonable price. They always had headliners, but they were not stadium size. That has changed, and the all experience is getting worse.

They still have nice lineups, and bands that, if you live in Portugal and Spain, maybe you can only see there. But now you have to pay a lot of money because of Halsey and Calvin Harris and Depeche Mode (just to name a few of this year), if you want to see "smaller" acts like Arthur Verocai, Unwound or Soul Glo. That is what upsets me, because, at these rates (not only the ticket, but accommodation, transport, etc.), this will probably be my last PS Barcelona.

[kitkat129]

3 hours ago, ConfidenceMan said:

Are we really still debating Halsey as a headliner? Not having heard of an act isn't a sign they're unworthy. Or that you're cool. The festival is changing its approach the last few years-the fact that most of us can look at this bill, hate a headline act and still a dozen names we want to see is very impressive. 

And, it may not be the most important metric, but if we really have to keep re litigating it... 

- Blur has 8m monthly listens on Spotify 

- Kendrick Lamar has 38m

- Halsey has over 40m

The way people consume music has changed. The way people identify with the music they like has changed. That's why popstars headline festivals alongside rock musicians and rappers. Im not suggesting people need to like any or all of them, but man this has been a tiresome few days on this forum if we could maaaybe move on a little. 

Also. I'm Not A Woman, I'm A God is a tune. But I won't be going near that set..!

Spotify listens mean absolutely nothing in this case, Depeche Mode has 9.5m listeners, Halsey 40m, does that mean that Halsey will attract a bigger crowd than DM at Primavera? I have my doubts about that...

No one is saying that lesser known artists are unworthy, if anything, I think many of us here listen to plenty of obscure bands and have also discovered artists thanks to Primavera, but we are talking about a headliner here. I think it's normal to discuss some of the questionable line-up choices this year, the line-up was just announced after all, and there's a reason if there are more negative comments than ususal. I'm a big fan of the festival and I'm sad that I'm not as excited as usual after a line-up announcement, MeMeMeM's comment above is accurate and expressed the same concerns I have.

[Whos3000_]

Thursday is weak compared to any of the single days of last year and that is a fact. Compared to some of the single days of 2019 and 2020, I don’t know. No problem for Friday and Saturday which are quite stacked, despite maneskin and Calvin Harris, who should not be a problem. Having Kendrick switched with Halsey or bjork instead of the latter would have saved a lot of backlash.

[SwallowOrSleepOnTheWetSpot]

9 hours ago, kitkat129 said:

Sure, I don't really like what I have heard from her, but that wasn't my argument and it's not about my personal preferences (I couldn't care less for Kendrick Lamar but I would obviously never question why he is a headliner), Halsey is objectively a small name in Europe, she doesn't have a dedicated fanbase and/or hit singles like Lorde or Carly Rae Jepsen, it's just really odd to see her headlining. You have a point with Jorja Smith, but the difference is that Nick Cave, Gorillaz and Tyler were also headlining on the same day, I would argue that the 2022 W1 Saturday was one of the most stacked line-ups ever in Primavera history, the 2023 Thursday line-up is pretty weak in comparison. Halsey headlining would be less of an issue it it if there was a third headliner and some more prominent mid-sized names, but right now that isn't the situation. 

 

2023 Thursday main stage: Blur, Halsey and... NxWorries? Loyle Carner? Central Cee?

2022 W1 Saturday main stage: Einstürzende Neubauten, Jorja Smith, Nick Cave, Gorillaz, Tyler

Not really comparable, imo. Don't get me wrong, I'd be fine with having a less stacked lineup after the 2022 edition, but I still feel that 2023 is lackluster by Primavera standards.

I was comparing Halsey and Jorja, not the Mordor lineups of both the days they played on. Nobody said anything about that.

[xxialac]

3 hours ago, MeMeMeM said:

I don't care for Halsey either, nor Calvin Harrys nor Maneskin, to name a few. For me, the problem is that Primavera is trying to get bigger and bigger, and for that they need names like this, names that are not cheap, I guess. And because of that, tickets are getting more and more expensive. You are now paying 325 € + fees to see Unwound, Karate and The Moldy Peaches, which many of us cannot afford.

Primavera was, in the past, super well curated, with a very reasonable price. They always had headliners, but they were not stadium size. That has changed, and the all experience is getting worse.

They still have nice lineups, and bands that, if you live in Portugal and Spain, maybe you can only see there. But now you have to pay a lot of money because of Halsey and Calvin Harris and Depeche Mode (just to name a few of this year), if you want to see "smaller" acts like Arthur Verocai, Unwound or Soul Glo. That is what upsets me, because, at these rates (not only the ticket, but accommodation, transport, etc.), this will probably be my last PS Barcelona.

I paid 195€ to see those same bands you mentioned. That is a lot less than 325€ and is no more expensive than any other equivalent festivals (and probably less e.g. Glastonbury was 390€ this year).

It's rewarding regulars that the early bird price exists - which is how it should be.

Appreciate accommodation, transport is a lot...but that's out of PS's control.

[pipan]

https://clashfinder.com/s/prima2023mock/

First fantasy clashfinder is here!

EDIT: but apparently not finished yet

Edited December 4, 2022 by pipan

[MeMeMeM]

8 hours ago, xxialac said:

I paid 195€ to see those same bands you mentioned. That is a lot less than 325€ and is no more expensive than any other equivalent festivals (and probably less e.g. Glastonbury was 390€ this year).

It's rewarding regulars that the early bird price exists - which is how it should be.

Appreciate accommodation, transport is a lot...but that's out of PS's control.

I also paid 205 € (195 plus fees). I am also a regular. That is why I am sad with the new way of the festival. You must recognize that PS is turning more and more expensive, even for regulars, and inflation doesn't explain everything. Rates are increasing not because of the undercard, but because PS wants to be the Coachella of Europe. And for that, they need these kind of headliners, that need to be paid.

Comparing it with Glastonbury is not fare, because they are not equivalent. The amount of bands in Glastonbury in just one day is insane.

I have been a fan of the festival since ever. Always early-bird tickets. You do not need to agree with me, since probably you have more economic conditions to attend than me and others. But these kind of headliners (I will not discuss if Halsey deserves it or not, because I don't care - I never attended PS because of headliners - they were more like a plus for me) are making the festival more and more expensive. But the experience is not getting better (2022 is there to prove it - you may say that it was a post-covid issue, but it doesn't explain everything).

Accommodation, transport, etc. is behind their control, of course. But is in part a consequence of their "new" direction, attracting audiences with more income, that can pay these rates.

[weirdfishes]

Do they make it difficult to sell your tickets? I really want to go but there's a chance I won't be able to make it to the festival, would it be easy to sell my ticket to someone else if that happened? Is there any name change required?

[xxialac]

I'm not disagreeing with you. The only point I'm making is that for loyal regulars, pricing hasn't changed much.

e.g. the early bird tickets that went on sale eight years ago in 2014 were 145€ and 195€ for those put on sale in 2022.

If you take inflation in the UK as a proxy (I don't have a reference rate for Spain so used UK) tickets should be now 183€ so you are right they are have gone up above inflation. However,  only slightly higher and there are 20% more bands now compared to back, more stages plus a significantly expanded Ciutat programme. Plus it's a fact almost all festivals' lost two years of revenue (whilst still continuing to bear costs). That was a reason Glastonbury gave for hiking up their prices so the same would apply here.

The most painful cost to someone flying in is the much bigger jump in hotel and flight prices and these costs are typically far higher than the ticket cost.

Edited December 4, 2022 by xxialac

[MeMeMeM]

6 minutes ago, xxialac said:

I'm not disagreeing with you. The only point I'm making is that for loyal regulars, pricing hasn't changed much.

.eg. the early bird tickets that went on sale eight years ago in 2014 were 145€ and 195€ for those put on sale in 2022.

If you take inflation in the UK as a proxy (I don't have a reference rate for Spain so used UK) tickets should be now 183€ so you are right they are have gone up above inflation. However,  only slightly higher and there are 20% more bands now compared to back, more stages plus a significantly expanded Ciutat programme.

The most painful cost to someone flying in is the much bigger jump in hotel and flight prices and these costs are typically far higher than the ticket cost.

More and less. Early birds in 2014 were 99 € (limited to 1.000 tickets). VIP (early bird) were 150...

In 2017 they were 145 (early bird), in 2018 they were 150, same rate in 2019, and, in 2020 they were 145 (a small reduction). 

2022 you get 195 €. Of course inflation happens. But is more than inflation. Of course PS is much bigger now, with more stages. But bigger doesn't mean better. And bigger needs to be paid. And they want to keep going on that way.

 

I will not even discuss some artists/bands that since, let's say 2019, are in the lineup, which 10 years ago the promoters would have laugh about.

[xxialac]

7 minutes ago, MeMeMeM said:

More and less. Early birds in 2014 were 99 € (limited to 1.000 tickets). VIP (early bird) were 150...

In 2017 they were 145 (early bird), in 2018 they were 150, same rate in 2019, and, in 2020 they were 145 (a small reduction). 

2022 you get 195 €. Of course inflation happens. But is more than inflation. Of course PS is much bigger now, with more stages. But bigger doesn't mean better. And bigger needs to be paid. And they want to keep going on that way.

 

I will not even discuss some artists/bands that since, let's say 2019, are in the lineup, which 10 years ago the promoters would have laugh about.

Those are different figures to the ones I quoted, think you are mixing up year ticket went on sale with year festival took place.

I wrote the "early bird tickets that went on sale eight years ago in 2014 were 145€" 

And that is correct - see here:

https://www.efestivals.co.uk/news/14/141112b.shtml

And 145€ for early birds in 2014 to 195€ in 2022 is mostly in line with inflation (which has been wild for the last 18 months of course), a little above but not much.