news & politics:discussion

[eFestivals]

43 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Not 100% sure what you said there....but in the past Scotland always voted labour but mostly got a tory govt....and maybe they're just a bit sick of it.whst I said is that people in England don't like the idea of a Westminster govt that is in thre string of thre SNP.. it makes labour winning more unlikely.

 

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Like the soviet union? Or the British Empire. Strong as a whole, but to the detriment of all the constituent parts but the centre of power.

Scottish indy will be more ecomically damaing to scotland run brexit ever can be to Scotland. You just have to listen to sturgeons own anti brexit arguments, and threswapthe union name for it to be clear. Being offended by brexit and supporting something more damaging is one for the idiots.

Quote

Centralisation is always bad, always antidemocratic, the more concentrated the power, the more easily tyranny takes hold.

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

 

Centralisation is always bad, always antidemocratic, the more concentrated the power, the more easily tyranny takes hold.

And indy Scotland won't be centre on Edinburgh oandGlasgow???

Edited April 8, 2021 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

51 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Not 100% sure what you said there....but in the past Scotland always voted labour but mostly got a tory govt....and maybe they're just a bit sick of it.

Scoapart from the time Scotland voted majority Tory and got a labour govt.

[steviewevie]

23 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Scoapart from the time Scotland voted majority Tory and got a labour govt.

yeah, apart from then.

They never get what they want.

Just let them go, and they can be another one of those lovely social democratic Scandinavian countries where everyone is happy and we can continue to be full of post imperial angst.

[eFestivals]

20 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yeah, apart from then.

They never get what they want

 

 

They got what they wanted when they voted to remain part of the UK but it's Scots who don't want to respectvwhatcscts voted for and trust got what they wanted with an extra £2k per person yearfrom that evil Westminster. Just imagine how much nicerr England would feel with that sort of tgovt largess year after year

 

20 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

 

 

 

 

Just let them go, and they can be another one of those lovely social democratic Scandinavian countries where everyone is happy and we can continue to be full of post imperial angst.

They can go but they won't like the consequences of the as t choice which is why! Hats lie about it. Indy scotland in thec EU would decimste Scotland.

[Mattymooz]

2 hours ago, ace56blaa said:

I don't want the U.K to split up, but I see why many want to and honestly it just lies at the feet of the Tories who are currently alienating the North, Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Northern Island, Women, Minorities and Anyone with a decent heart, yet they still have support because lets face it, a lot of voters in this country are gormless.

I feel like it's the opposite of this no? The Tory government have been bending over for the DUP, having to pander to avoid a complete SNP takeover & indy ref and have made huge strides in getting the north on side (who are generally more xenophobic etc. and are the ones who pushed for Brexit the hardest)...

 

I know everyone likes to blame all the UKs problems on London, but that is Labours problem is that they have become the party for young people (who tend to congregate in cities like London etc.).

[steviewevie]

20 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

They got what they wanted when they voted to remain part of the UK but it's Scots who don't want to respectvwhatcscts voted for and trust got what they wanted with an extra £2k per person yearfrom that evil Westminster. Just imagine how much nicerr England would feel with that sort of tgovt largess year after year

 

a big part of what they wanted to stay part of has changed.

[steviewevie]

21 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

They can go but they won't like the consequences of the as t choice which is why! Hats lie about it. Indy scotland in thec EU would decimste Scotland.

They wouldn't be part of the EU for some time I expect.

[steviewevie]

anyway, I won't be voting in Scottish elections or a referendum...so fuck all to do with me.

[steviewevie]

N Ireland was always going to get fucked by brexit...May tried to find a compromise solution, but for some stupid fucking reason DUP as well as ERG knobs blocked it...and now we have a mess, and no easy solution.

[eFestivals]

13 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

a big part of what they wanted to stay part of has changed.

Yet if Scotland had all votedremain it wouldn't have changedthet scotland voted forc brexit at higher proportion than whonel UK did.i also think it's unlikely that the snp will run an indyref committed to joining the eu causes it creates Klotdsmre issues such as bigger austerity than the tories gave scorland.wpuld the EU want e new member where such a high proportion has demonstrated they didn't want to be members.

[eFestivals]

16 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

They wouldn't be part of the EU for some time I expect.

Ten years minimum.

[steviewevie]

 

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Yet if Scotland had all votedremain it wouldn't have changedthet scotland voted forc brexit at higher proportion than whonel UK did.i also think it's unlikely that the snp will run an indyref committed to joining the eu causes it creates Klotdsmre issues such as bigger austerity than the tories gave scorland.wpuld the EU want e new member where such a high proportion has demonstrated they didn't want to be members.

62% voted remain in Scotland.

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

62% voted remain in Scotland.

Scots love to claim they all love the EU if they'd voted100%for remain remain would have won.

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Scots love to claim they all love the EU if they'd voted100%for remain remain would have won.

well, you get some weirdos up there who want to stay in UK too.

[eFestivals]

3 hours ago, Ozanne said:

Why aren’t the media reporting about NI being on fire?

Does it'll make the cornynistas rememnber how great thre70s were. All we need nope for full effect is 20+dead as well.

[eFestivals]

I expect Scotland to vote Moore in favour of the rapey parties than it did the EU.

[mattiloy]

32 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I expect Scotland to vote Moore in favour of the rapey parties than it did the EU.

Why would you expect that of Scottish people? Seems like a bit of a slight  

Edited April 8, 2021 by mattiloy

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, mattiloy said:

Why would you expect that of Scottish people? Seems like a bit of a slight  

Polls suggest sexpests and sex let excuses aren't changing how they'll vote.just imagine what they'd be saying if those two were from Westminster parties.

[Ayrshire Chris]

I hesitate at this time to post on social media about Scottish politics, as a labour voter any criticism of the seperatists usually results in quite venomous abuse accusing me of being a traitor or a closet Tory!  But here goes anyway!

i was Brought up in industrial Lanarkshire in the 60s and 70s and labour used to pile up  the votes.  The snp were a fringe protest party, opposed to EU membership. Things changed when folk like Salmond decided to move the party to the left, he was even expelled from his party at one point.  Gradually they built up their support to 30% and began to break through. Devolution was meant to stop the push to separation, instead the nationalists used it the further their cause.  Outside the central belt they targeted seats such as the western isles where Charles Kennedy, Lib Dem, had his seat. A vicious campaign that included the snp making personal attacks, even using Kennedy’s struggle with alcohol. Blackford, the snp leader in Westminster was part of this.  

What we have now is the unionist vote split between the three other parties. A recipe for a nationalist majority. Tactical voting could defeat them but that would mean, for instance, me voting Tory and risk my father and grandfather  spinning in their graves!  It might have to be the way ahead. 

The snp case for separation isn’t scrutinised enough. They are good at flag waving, empty rhetoric and soundbites but ignore questions on the currency, the level of national debt they would inherit, the lender of last resort, taxation, the cost of independence, creating a border with their biggest trading partner (the rest of the UK) , the lack of wealth creation and the high proportion of public service employees and the serious problems rejoining theEU.  The only journalist who has actually posed these questions is Andrew Neil . Amazingly also  the historian Neil Oliver gets serious abuse online for his criticism of the snp

whenever  a country goes its own way it’s usually because an overwhelming number of the population want it, not a narrow 51 49 majority. That just creates bitterness and division. Even the snp used to say they wanted at least 60% support for another referendum. 

If there is another divisive referendum they I just hope the economic realities of separation are put before the voters rather that just the emotional case that the snp concentrate on. 

 

 

 

[mattiloy]

53 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Polls suggest sexpests and sex let excuses aren't changing how they'll vote.just imagine what they'd be saying if those two were from Westminster parties.

Perhaps they are more interested in policy than person

[mattiloy]

52 minutes ago, Ayrshire Chris said:

I hesitate at this time to post on social media about Scottish politics, as a labour voter any criticism of the seperatists usually results in quite venomous abuse accusing me of being a traitor or a closet Tory!  But here goes anyway!

i was Brought up in industrial Lanarkshire in the 60s and 70s and labour used to pile up  the votes.  The snp were a fringe protest party, opposed to EU membership. Things changed when folk like Salmond decided to move the party to the left, he was even expelled from his party at one point.  Gradually they built up their support to 30% and began to break through. Devolution was meant to stop the push to separation, instead the nationalists used it the further their cause.  Outside the central belt they targeted seats such as the western isles where Charles Kennedy, Lib Dem, had his seat. A vicious campaign that included the snp making personal attacks, even using Kennedy’s struggle with alcohol. Blackford, the snp leader in Westminster was part of this.  

What we have now is the unionist vote split between the three other parties. A recipe for a nationalist majority. Tactical voting could defeat them but that would mean, for instance, me voting Tory and risk my father and grandfather  spinning in their graves!  It might have to be the way ahead. 

The snp case for separation isn’t scrutinised enough. They are good at flag waving, empty rhetoric and soundbites but ignore questions on the currency, the level of national debt they would inherit, the lender of last resort, taxation, the cost of independence, creating a border with their biggest trading partner (the rest of the UK) , the lack of wealth creation and the high proportion of public service employees and the serious problems rejoining theEU.  The only journalist who has actually posed these questions is Andrew Neil . Amazingly also  the historian Neil Oliver gets serious abuse online for his criticism of the snp

whenever  a country goes its own way it’s usually because an overwhelming number of the population want it, not a narrow 51 49 majority. That just creates bitterness and division. Even the snp used to say they wanted at least 60% support for another referendum. 

If there is another divisive referendum they I just hope the economic realities of separation are put before the voters rather that just the emotional case that the snp concentrate on. 

 

 

 

A question, if the SNP were to produce a plan for separation which addressed the economic issues you raise, how would you feel about independence then?

[Ayrshire Chris]

13 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Perhaps they are more interested in policy than person

It would be a refreshing change if we could have an election where policy and record in government took centre stage. The state of education, the child poverty, high mortality in deprived areas, the worst drug deaths record in Europe. Lack of funding shouldn’t be an issue. Scotland has the Barnet formula and sturgeon has had the power to raise taxes though she chooses not to.  An election based on policies not personalities or a single issue, I wish!