Football 2020/2021

[Gnomicide]

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Edited June 10, 2021 by Gnomicide
Get a grip!

[CRW5252]

19 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

Fans of smaller clubs have been punished because of the actions of their owners for years. This thing about not punishing fans seems to have only been a thing since it was the big clubs fans that would be punished.

I agree but that doesn't mean fans of big clubs also should be punished when they are not culpable either. The punishments for the clubs should hit where it hurts the owners the most, their pockets. Big fines (much bigger than they were given) would be the best way of doing this.

[CRW5252]

22 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

No, it really hurts the owners. Also, all fans of football suffer from allowing the big boys to run the game, why should I care about these glory-hunters being upset?

Glory-hunters jump between the best team at any given time. I don't think many people could say people that have stuck with the likes of Spurs and Arsenal this season are glory hunters...

[CRW5252]

18 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

Fans stop supporting and going to games for dozens of reasons. Lack of success triggers a bigger drop in attendance and merch sales than anything else. Unless fines are bigger than the revenue drop from less competitions/tv/merch/tickets then they're irrelevant.

That's what I'm saying, make the fines very big. That would be the best way to punish the club. It hits greedy owners where it hurts most, their pockets.

Edited June 10, 2021 by CRW5252

[kaosmark2]

8 minutes ago, CRW5252 said:

That's what I'm saying, make the fines very big. That would be the best way to punish the club. It hits greedy owners where it hurts most, their pockets.

You're talking £200m+ to get them relevant.

[kaosmark2]

1 hour ago, CRW5252 said:

I agree but that doesn't mean fans of big clubs also should be punished when they are not culpable either. The punishments for the clubs should hit where it hurts the owners the most, their pockets. Big fines (much bigger than they were given) would be the best way of doing this.

Sorry, a reply got lost.

The fans of big clubs are culpable, because they endorse the owners by continuing to fund them. Individually it's very low-level support and level of guilt, but it's there. I have no sympathy for the "don't punish the fans" argument.

[Hugh Jass]

Fuck the fans of “big clubs”.

They never whinge when their owners are stumping up £50m for another striker. They’ve got no right to complain now.

[pink_triangle]

2 hours ago, CRW5252 said:

I agree but that doesn't mean fans of big clubs also should be punished when they are not culpable either. The punishments for the clubs should hit where it hurts the owners the most, their pockets. Big fines (much bigger than they were given) would be the best way of doing this.

If an owner of a club puts the club into huge debt should the taxpayer write off the debt so the unculpable fans arent punished. How about the fans of clubs who live within their means, they are sometimes punished with relegation, why should their fans be punished.

If your sayings fans should reap the rewards of good decisions their owners make, but be protected from the bad ones, I respectfully disagree.  Fans of these ESL wannabees have known what these clubs have become for years, they have had plenty of time to go elsewhere if not happy with corporate football.

 

[thetime]

42 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

Fuck the fans of “big clubs”.

They never whinge when their owners are stumping up £50m for another striker. They’ve got no right to complain now.

Let's not try and say the likes of baggies are not just in it for the money. They are one of the teams to benefit greatly from parachute payments, in turn giving them a unfair advantage going back up.

[thetime]

35 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

If an owner of a club puts the club into huge debt should the taxpayer write off the debt so the unculpable fans arent punished. How about the fans of clubs who live within their means, they are sometimes punished with relegation, why should their fans be punished.

If your sayings fans should reap the rewards of good decisions their owners make, but be protected from the bad ones, I respectfully disagree.  Fans of these ESL wannabees have known what these clubs have become for years, they have had plenty of time to go elsewhere if not happy with corporate football.

 

What level isn't corporate football? Just outside the 6 with the ESL? 

[Hugh Jass]

20 minutes ago, thetime said:

Let's not try and say the likes of baggies are not just in it for the money. They are one of the teams to benefit greatly from parachute payments, in turn giving them a unfair advantage going back up.

No we are very much in it for the glory.

You can’t sell your soul to the devil, enjoy the fruits of that sale then whinge when tries to fuck you up the arse.

[CRW5252]

4 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

You're talking £200m+ to get them relevant.

Lets do it.

[CRW5252]

2 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

Sorry, a reply got lost.

The fans of big clubs are culpable, because they endorse the owners by continuing to fund them. Individually it's very low-level support and level of guilt, but it's there. I have no sympathy for the "don't punish the fans" argument.

Most of the fans of 'big clubs' were there before the owner though so it isn't easy to just 'stop funding them'. Many season ticket holders own the tickets over generations, just like in smaller clubs. Again, very hard to give these tickets up due to love for the club.

Fans of 'big clubs' and fans of 'small clubs', broadly speaking, are very similar. The love for the club and passion for football is there with both. Any fan base, big club or small club, would have a large majority of fans who would stick with their club despite the owners. Hull and Newcastle are great examples of this. Is every fan of a club with bad owners culpable for their owners? In my opinion, not at all. 

[pink_triangle]

1 minute ago, CRW5252 said:

Many season ticket holders own the tickets over generations, just like in smaller clubs. Again, very hard to give these tickets up due to love for the club

I am sure some do, but these make up a tiny proportion of fans of clubs like Liverpool and Man Utd.

[CRW5252]

2 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

If an owner of a club puts the club into huge debt should the taxpayer write off the debt so the unculpable fans arent punished. How about the fans of clubs who live within their means, they are sometimes punished with relegation, why should their fans be punished.

If your sayings fans should reap the rewards of good decisions their owners make, but be protected from the bad ones, I respectfully disagree.  Fans of these ESL wannabees have known what these clubs have become for years, they have had plenty of time to go elsewhere if not happy with corporate football.

 

Those two examples are both clearly massively unfair to the fans and should be avoided where ever possible in my opinion. A good place to start would be to make sure these kind of owners never get a chance to own a club (I appreciate this is easy to say in hindsight). 

It isn't that easy to just stop supporting a club. For many fans it is ingrained in them, normally from family or location.

Regardless of this, football is very corporate all across the pyramid so you aren't going to have much choice if you restrict your self to 'non-corporate' football. Would basically just be Sunday-league level. 

[CRW5252]

4 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I am sure some do, but these make up a tiny proportion of fans of clubs like Liverpool and Man Utd.

They will be a significant contributor to the owners pocket though. 

[kaosmark2]

1 hour ago, CRW5252 said:

Most of the fans of 'big clubs' were there before the owner though so it isn't easy to just 'stop funding them'. Many season ticket holders own the tickets over generations, just like in smaller clubs. Again, very hard to give these tickets up due to love for the club.

Fans of 'big clubs' and fans of 'small clubs', broadly speaking, are very similar. The love for the club and passion for football is there with both. Any fan base, big club or small club, would have a large majority of fans who would stick with their club despite the owners. Hull and Newcastle are great examples of this. Is every fan of a club with bad owners culpable for their owners? In my opinion, not at all. 

I believe in boycotting things. I haven't bought a shirt or gone to St James' in 10 years (albeit made easier by living down south now).

If you give unconditional support to any business, I think it's then cheeky to moan about it while continuing to throw money at them. Consumerism is what has driven football to this.

Back to the ESL punishment point though, the desire to leave and have a closed super-league was based off being happy to abandon local support in favour of hunting TV money and Chinese shirt sales. The only way to hit their income on a foreign market, is to take away the success for a period. Maybe if these clubs spend 5 years outside the top divisions, then we'll see a rise in foreign support for other clubs.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Hugh Jass said:

Fuck the fans of “big clubs”.

They never whinge when their owners are stumping up £50m for another striker. They’ve got no right to complain now.

If it was not for the fans of the big clubs being totally against the idea, a lot of clubs would have been in the shit.

How much would the TV deal be worth if the big 6 clubs were not included? It would be worth fuck all and clubs like yourselves would be in dire straits. Yet you want to fuck the fans who stood against the idea.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I believe in boycotting things. I haven't bought a shirt or gone to St James' in 10 years (albeit made easier by living down south now).

If you give unconditional support to any business, I think it's then cheeky to moan about it while continuing to throw money at them. Consumerism is what has driven football to this.

Back to the ESL punishment point though, the desire to leave and have a closed super-league was based off being happy to abandon local support in favour of hunting TV money and Chinese shirt sales. The only way to hit their income on a foreign market, is to take away the success for a period. Maybe if these clubs spend 5 years outside the top divisions, then we'll see a rise in foreign support for other clubs.

If the clubs were given a ridiculous punishment then they would just fuck off. Like it or not, the league needs the big clubs more than the big clubs need the Premier League.

[Hugh Jass]

32 minutes ago, eastynh said:

If it was not for the fans of the big clubs being totally against the idea, a lot of clubs would have been in the shit.

How much would the TV deal be worth if the big 6 clubs were not included? It would be worth fuck all and clubs like yourselves would be in dire straits. Yet you want to fuck the fans who stood against the idea.

You mean the same fans who rolled out the red carpet for these clowns? Yeah, fuck them.

Football existed before Sky, oil sheikhs and petrodollars, it can do again.

[squirrelarmy]

Back on the subject of actual football and not just football politics. 
 

How many of the footy chat regulars have joined the Euros fantasy league?

Lets see who actually does know what they’re talking about. Just over 12 hours left to get a team in! 

[pink_triangle]

11 hours ago, thetime said:

What level isn't corporate football? Just outside the 6 with the ESL? 

To a degree, but I would argue that these fans of the ESL teams have been the worse for wanting all the advantages without any of the disadvantages. As I have said I never used to hear this thing about punishing the owners not the players, untill it was fans of these "bigger" clubs impacted.

 

[thetime]

10 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

To a degree, but I would argue that these fans of the ESL teams have been the worse for wanting all the advantages without any of the disadvantages. As I have said I never used to hear this thing about punishing the owners not the players, untill it was fans of these "bigger" clubs impacted.

 

Isn't it just one member here saying that though, in the majority fans are quite happy for the book thrown at the clubs.

[pink_triangle]

38 minutes ago, thetime said:

Isn't it just one member here saying that though, in the majority fans are quite happy for the book thrown at the clubs.

I meant beyond here. Podcasts media etc. Of course media dominated by fans of these teams which may have an influence.

[thetime]

2 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I meant beyond here. Podcasts media etc. Of course media dominated by fans of these teams which may have an influence.

Oh right, not seen anything from the media say be lenient as the fans will be upset.