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When will this shit end?


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38 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

I'm finally going to watch IT Part 2 tomorrow- I have been saving It for this special occasion- it will seem like a comedy compared to how this year's gone!

it will seem like a comedy but not for that reason

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1 hour ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Thank you.  You're the first.  Even though these 12 claims are only that - claims, with no evidence - I don't dismiss them like I did other claims in the discussion, because many of them are attributed to specific complainants.  And the language used is, indeed, antisemitic rather than anti-Zionist.  An important distinction.

So the question is: are the claims true?  That would require what I've been asking for all along: evidence.  At the moment, none of us have access to any of the evidence, so we have to wait for whatever investigation is set up to examine it.  (Although, given the nature of the claims, these should have gone straight to the police, as they clearly meet the criteria for hate-speech.)

Now I know I'm out of step with the rest of you for not rushing to judgement before I've seen the evidence, but before you assume these claims are true, consider these two things:

1.  Do you really believe what is being claimed is sufficiently credible that you're prepared to accept it without very strong evidence?  Examples: a delegate at the 2017 Labour conference claims two other delegates at his table stated he should be "grateful we don't make them eat bacon…"  Or at a local party meeting, a local party member claimed he was told "to shut the f*** up, Jew" and "Hitler was right"  I don't know if any of you have been at any Labour meetings in the past 10 years, but if you had, you'd find these claims so incredible that you'd definitely want to see evidence.

2.  All of these claims come from the 'Jewish Labour Movement.'  This is a group which has gained traction within Labour since 2017, but is bitterly opposed by non-Zionist Jewish Labour members.  You can read up on them for yourself, but to persuade you that all might not be as it seems: one strong critic of the JLM is Noam Chomsky, who is probably the most respected left-wing intellectual of our time - and Jewish to boot.  He, along with other non-Zionist Jewish intellectuals and public figures, is a sponsor of 'Labour against the witch hunt.'   I've posted the link - have a read about their uncompromising views on JLM, before you decide to accept their claims at face value.  Also, if you're not familiar with it - read up on Zionism.  Enjoy fundamentalist Christians? You'll love the Zionists.

It's less effort to just accept the claims of this whispering campaign of antisemitism than to try and dig out the truth.  But if that means your fellow travellers are Trump, Netanyahu, the Daily Mail and the rest of the right wing establishment, and your opponents are Noam Chomsky, and co., you really ought to make that effort.

Edited by Mark E. Spliff
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Look Mark, I know you lot got really behind this guy in an election and he promised some great things that probably inspired you politically.

But this isn’t it chief. Stop holding the evidence to a higher standard than you hold other evidence. You can still be a socialist and admit corbyn isn’t great here.

Edited by Matt42
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3 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Look Mark, I know you lot got really behind this guy in an election and he promised some great things that probably inspired you politically.

But this isn’t it chief. Stop holding the evidence to a higher standard than you hold other evidence. You can still be a socialist and admit corbyn isn’t great here.

Matt - you haven't read the thread, so I'm not going to do the whole your quote/my quote thing to prove a point.  But just be aware - I'm no more a fan of Corbyn than you and never was.

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2 hours ago, WestCountryGirl said:

Exactly. I feel like I am sat here, my mind just screaming "Do something! They have to do something!" ... but nothing is being done. They're still having the gall to troop people out every day to say that the 'regional restrictions are effective'- they're evidently, absolutely not!!

It's absolutely terrifying. Completely hopeless (them in charge, and the situation).

 

2 hours ago, crazyfool1 said:

its tough ...im sat here trying to influence a friend that has way too many different contacts with people in my opinion ..... I do totally understand why .... but he has 5 different childcare options for his school aged children , one being his mum who's extremely vulnerable .... we can do our best with our friends and family and try to have some influence but ultimately its their decision ... we can really only directly influence what we do ourselves and lower that risk as much as we can .... but unfortunately  the government can only have that say that stops the spread .... leaving it to common sense has completely failed us :( 

This is why its spreading- imagine that the country over. I'm hesitant to blame the government now- there is only one option and that's VERY draconian measures in the North especially.

Too many are poorly educated and/or just don't care. Areas here actually exploded numbers under equivalent of tier 2/3 lockdowns. It's time to call out the behaviour instead of hiding behind Cummings and anti Tory sentiment etc. A HUGE amount of people are behaving like there is no pandemic happening.

Bringing it back to the current topic...when I begrudgingly voted for Corbyn (for Brexit reasons only) last December I never thought I'd be sitting here a year later wanting the Tories to enact essentially the sort of measures I had slight worries about a hard left Labour bringing in....

Very much wish I was living in Singapore, Vietnam or Japan - three wonderful countries that I visited last year on my travels that put our shithole into perspective 

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5 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

Very much wish I was living in Singapore, Vietnam or Japan - three wonderful countries that I visited last year on my travels that put our shithole into perspective 

absolutely yes ... I wonder how many people have acquired medical exemptions and dont wear masks in those countries ... or is it just not a thing ? Ive not been to any of them to judge ... I have some sympathy for those that cant wear them of course but we do now have other ways of shopping at least these days ... and I have no choice in if I have to deal with these people 

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I don't understand why nine Labour MPs would quit the party over anti-semitism if there wasn't any? That's a pretty extreme thing to happen. Why would Luciana Berger just make it all up? Objectively that tells me that there was anti-semitism. Or am I missing something?

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4 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Texas swinging back to Trump


Ohio staying red. Always has been.

Georgia going Dem for the first time since 1992.

Trump surprisingly putting up a fight in NC. Still leaning Biden but could be a surprise red hold.

 

 

 

 

Where's this from?

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2 minutes ago, Homer said:

I don't understand why nine Labour MPs would quit the party over anti-semitism if there wasn't any? That's a pretty extreme thing to happen. Why would Luciana Berger just make it all up? Objectively that tells me that there was anti-semitism. Or am I missing something?

it was anti-zionism and she is a zionist.

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