Football 19/20

[zahidf]

Good man

 

 

[zahidf]

https://www.football365.com/news/feature-premier-league-player-wage-cut-matt-hancock

 

Good article

Ha! At least I don’t get 30,000 people telling me to fuck off on a Saturday afternoon. Just to pull this back to the wages situation, why do you think footballers should be giving away all their wages? 100%. A lot of people will think that’s extreme.”

P: (groans) Look, look, players get the majority of money that comes into the club, don’t they? Most of the turnover of every club goes on wages. So if we’re not going to sort it out, who the fuck is? The lad who sells pizza on matchdays? Fuck off. No football fans should be finding excuses for footballers at this level. I don’t understand why they do that. It’s like they’re sticking up for us for some reason. Fuck off you creep, y’know? Eurgh. I hate those people who go on social media and say shit like ‘players have got a right to earn all that money’. Fuck off mate. You know fuck all so shut your fucking yap. I’ve got a ‘right’ have I? Fuck off. I’ve no right to earn more than someone who is caring for the dying. What monster would say that? These people who say things like that have lost perspective.”

“OK, so let’s wrap this up with how you think we can go forward with the virus situation suspending…(interrupts)

P: “It’s not complicated, Johnny. Clubs pay non-playing staff wages in full for the duration. The Premier League or whoever has the power, takes the players and directors’ wage bill for three months and donates it to essential workers and the NHS. Six months if it goes on longer. That’s it. Not hard. No fuss and bother. Just do it. The lads will probably be glad to have the pressure taken off them. Then we’ll go round Hancock’s house and get his money off him. The twat.”

 

 

[zahidf]

Good start

 

 

[st dan]

Any support they can give to the NHS and the lower leagues is a great gesture from all involved. They really aren't entitled to give any thing, despite what some people may think. 

Also, an interesting point on football not returning until the government say it is safe to do so. Pretty sure they won’t be giving a green light for mass gatherings to reconvene any time soon - it is critical they aren’t too reckless after lifting the restrictions.

Whether that makes behind clothes doors games more likely - who knows. It could also be getting to the stage where we scrap the 2020/2021 season altogether and let the league continue this time next year where it left off (contract issues aside). 

[pink_triangle]

22 minutes ago, st dan said:

Any support they can give to the NHS and the lower leagues is a great gesture from all involved. They really aren't entitled to give any thing, despite what some people may think. 

Also, an interesting point on football not returning until the government say it is safe to do so. Pretty sure they won’t be giving a green light for mass gatherings to reconvene any time soon - it is critical they aren’t too reckless after lifting the restrictions.

Whether that makes behind clothes doors games more likely - who knows. It could also be getting to the stage where we scrap the 2020/2021 season altogether and let the league continue this time next year where it left off (contract issues aside). 

I do think it's a little unfair that rich footballers generally from working class backgrounds seem to be expected tp do more than rich people from other professionals who generally come from middle/upper class.

I cant imagine footballers playing behind closed doors is a priority, so I think we are in for a long wait. Contracts is a huge issue, why would someone sign a short term contract and risk injury.

[kaosmark2]

I thought Alastair Campbell did a good job on the topic :

https://www.thearticle.com/covid-19-hancocks-call-for-a-premiership-pay-cut-was-pure-populism

I think its quite interesting, as sports players, across all sports, seem to have collectively put this to their unions to negotiate and ensure its done properly. 

There is no point players giving up wages and just letting owners hold the money. 

[pink_triangle]

I think we need to beware of the government using rich footballers to deflect blame regarding lack of ventilators, testing etc.

[jyoung]

1 hour ago, kaosmark2 said:

I thought Alastair Campbell did a good job on the topic :

https://www.thearticle.com/covid-19-hancocks-call-for-a-premiership-pay-cut-was-pure-populism

Completely agree with Alastair here.

21 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I think we need to beware of the government using rich footballers to deflect blame regarding lack of ventilators, testing etc.

100%.

[zahidf]

2 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

I do think it's a little unfair that rich footballers generally from working class backgrounds seem to be expected tp do more than rich people from other professionals who generally come from middle/upper class.

I cant imagine footballers playing behind closed doors is a priority, so I think we are in for a long wait. Contracts is a huge issue, why would someone sign a short term contract and risk injury.

Depends. If groups of up to 50 are allowed, then closed doors football is certainly a thing.

 

The end of contract stuff is a little overblown IMO. Most players are within contract, and if not, probably wouldn't be in the first 11 for the most part 

[jyoung]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

The end of contract stuff is a little overblown IMO. Most players are within contract, and if not, probably wouldn't be in the first 11 for the most part 

Most are, ye but that isn't the point is it?

Giroud, Willian and Pedro all out of contract for Chelsea. They are regulars in a small squad. 

City have David Silva, Bournemouth have Ryan Fraser, Sheffield United have Lundstram. 

[zahidf]

10 minutes ago, jyoung said:

Most are, ye but that isn't the point is it?

Giroud, Willian and Pedro all out of contract for Chelsea. They are regulars in a small squad. 

City have David Silva, Bournemouth have Ryan Fraser, Sheffield United have Lundstram. 

It's not ideal but I dont think its enough to be a major factor in their thinking. I assume most of the players will renew, and if they dont, none of the above are key players who are playing  regularly. Finishing the fixtures is more important overall to the league.

[pink_triangle]

1 hour ago, zahidf said:

Depends. If groups of up to 50 are allowed, then closed doors football is certainly a thing.

 

The end of contract stuff is a little overblown IMO. Most players are within contract, and if not, probably wouldn't be in the first 11 for the most part 

If you want to play those games at the rate they are talking you will need more than a first 11.

[pink_triangle]

56 minutes ago, zahidf said:

It's not ideal but I dont think its enough to be a major factor in their thinking. 

It will depend on the players situation. Some will use it as leverage to get a deal worth far more than their true value. However if your a player eyeing up a move to a bigger team or a bigger pay packet abroad, you arent going to risk playing without a massive incentive.

[lost]

Its a minefield. Take Spurs. Out of the three options they are in favour of forfeit because they'd get champs league on last seasons place, resume because they will be better off having games over the summer where Kane and Son will be fit, but will probably challenge average points so far as they had an injury crisis towards the end.

Every club probably has a scenario which is different based on contacts, loaned players, injuries, opponents left, losing home advantage and current placing.

Edited April 3, 2020 by lost

[pink_triangle]

5 minutes ago, lost said:

Its a minefield. Take Spurs. Out of the three options they are in favour of forfeit because they'd get champs league on last seasons place, resume because they will be better off having games over the summer where Kane and Son will be fit, but will probably challenge average points so far as they had an injury crisis towards the end.

Every club probably has a scenario which is different based on contacts, loaned players, injuries, opponents left, losing home advantage and current placing.

Also no guarantees of different countries starting/finishing at the same time which complicates things further. I still think best option is to finish and hope we can start afresh in August/September.

[Neil]

11 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

I still think best option is to finish and hope we can start afresh in August/September.

I agree. The integrity of the competition has gone, no matter what option they choose to take for finishing it.

So then the arguments need to be about what method they use for finishing it: voiding it, or using the results from a three-quarters-completed season - while keeping in mind that needs to try and be as fair as possible for the unfinished season AND for what happens next season.

I think the answer has always been obvious when you think about next season as well as the unfinished season - and that's to use the games that have been played this season.

The relegation issue can be fudged by the Prem relegating no one, and then having the top 2 teams promoted from the leagues below. If they need to free up space for games next season then the league cup can be binned. 

[zahidf]

1 hour ago, Neil said:

I agree. The integrity of the competition has gone, no matter what option they choose to take for finishing it.

So then the arguments need to be about what method they use for finishing it: voiding it, or using the results from a three-quarters-completed season - while keeping in mind that needs to try and be as fair as possible for the unfinished season AND for what happens next season.

I think the answer has always been obvious when you think about next season as well as the unfinished season - and that's to use the games that have been played this season.

The relegation issue can be fudged by the Prem relegating no one, and then having the top 2 teams promoted from the leagues below. If they need to free up space for games next season then the league cup can be binned. 

Yeah I was thinking binning the league and first few rounds of FA cup if necessary would be the best bet to fit enough games in for a shorter 20/21 season.

 

If there is a situation where 50 people mass gatherings are possible, they can do some games behind closed doors

[pink_triangle]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Yeah I was thinking binning the league and first few rounds of FA cup if necessary would be the best bet to fit enough games in for a shorter 20/21 season.

 

If there is a situation where 50 people mass gatherings are possible, they can do some games behind closed doors

Who would be allowed to enter the FA cup if you binned the first few rounds?

There may not be the need for a shortened 20/21 season if you fibish now.

Edited April 4, 2020 by pink_triangle

[jyoung]

It's a tough one, isn't it. So many hot takes and opinions but no clear out and out best solution.

[Comfy Bean]

I’m still guessing we finish this season with behind closed doors becoming an option that will suit the tv and sponsors ( bookies ).

We know that the players contacts are a mess but in the grand scheme of things they might be advised to tread carefully.

Getting football back would be seen a a huge benefit to most ( not all ) something heading in the direction of “normal” to focus on.

They can invent something different for next season with everyone signing up to it at the start. Probably factoring in some prevention measures for next winter just in case so maybe an early switch to closed door games if necessary. Arrangements outlined before season tickets go on sale etc and agreements reached on relegation etc before a ball is kicked in the event of a repeat next season.

[pink_triangle]

2 minutes ago, Comfy Bean said:

 

We know that the players contacts are a mess but in the grand scheme of things they might be advised to tread carefully.

How would you define tread carefully?

[zahidf]

I think the number of players out of contract past June and who wont sign a 1 year extension is relatively small, and I dont think most of the clubs or the FA would use that as the red line against finishing the season in July/August. I certainly dont think city or Chelsea will care overly.

[pink_triangle]

11 minutes ago, zahidf said:

I think the number of players out of contract past June and who wont sign a 1 year extension is relatively small, and I dont think most of the clubs or the FA would use that as the red line against finishing the season in July/August. I certainly dont think city or Chelsea will care overly.

I think thats oversimplistic. The agents will know the player holds the cards and will demand extra signing on fees, wage increase, extra years far above the players value, will the club automatically accept?

Why would a player accept a 1 year contract when they can get 3 years elsewhere?

What if other countries void and start again in August/September. Why would they let new players finish the season in England?

[zahidf]

50 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I think thats oversimplistic. The agents will know the player holds the cards and will demand extra signing on fees, wage increase, extra years far above the players value, will the club automatically accept?

Why would a player accept a 1 year contract when they can get 3 years elsewhere?

What if other countries void and start again in August/September. Why would they let new players finish the season in England?

Whilst true, none of those issues are as bad as voiding the season in terms of integrity and financial implications)

I'm also dubious about any of the contract ending players being of utmost importance to the club. (Moreso than the implications of not finishing the season)

Edited April 4, 2020 by zahidf

[pink_triangle]

5 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Whilst true, none of those issues are as bad as voiding the season in terms of integrity and financial implications.

Add the loan agreements that end as well. You may be right about financial implications, i would argue the integrity is damaged just as much.