Don't vote Tory

[OBface]

14 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

which is why Corbyn is so popular.

 

 

I'd be far worse off under Corbyn. Gets my vote though. 

[babyblade41]

It's an age old problem, we want more financial input into NHS and care but as long as it isn''t from our own pocket....and it's why Corbyn for me is wrong as it will eventually come out of all our pockets a lot more than you think and not from a select few.

 I'm not unhappy about paying more tax but to believe the financial costs would come from just a few then I think that is living in cloud cuckoo land . I'd happily pay more but will others who were promised they will be financially better off then find they aren't going to be  quite as flush as they were promised 

If you want to vote for a political party that is everyones democratic right to do so but don't complain when what /who you voted for doesn't deliver totally on the big manifesto claims and the sums don't add up 12 months down the line.... I don't make that statement to just labour supporters I mean right across the board.

 

I know majority don't agree with me but how can borrowing 250 million squillion can ever reduce the deficit and give free education , social welfare and everything else Mr Corbyn is promising.  If he does it I for one would hold my hat off to him  5 years down the line and probably change my vote next time  but I'm 100 percent sure that won't happen.

The amount he has promised to give to so many won't come to fruition , it would be lovely if it could but we live in a harsh reality 

 

I still believe you need to get rid of Ms Abbott and McDonnel for starters... if JC does win at least if those two go it would be something !!!

[Warbler]

My issue in this election, is the dishonesty from both sides, As a student a Tory vote wouldn't benefit my interests, nor is there manifesto that strong and this regulation of the internet and snoopers charter, is just a signal of increased security and lesser civil liberties of which I don't think we are having the appropriate discussion to make an informed decision, but abolition of tuition fees and potential wiping out of debt sounds great but is unsustainable and unattainable. Personally I feel a labour vote will inevitably mean rise in taxes from everyone, due to tax revenue not being raised through there botched the top 5% will pay plan. I also think the economy is in for a hard time under Labour and Corbyn's foreign policy and Brexit is weak. Either way I feel we are in for a rough time regardless...

[Ommadawn]

52 minutes ago, Trout Mask Replica said:

So much astroturf on this thread. 

Lets have that video again, look at all the people. 

 

Yep, loads of people but I wonder how many are registered to vote, how many will vote and out of those, how many will vote Labour. I'd certainly go to a Corbyn meeting if one was held locally (unfortunate that he wasn't able to attend Glastonbury last year) but I wouldn't vote for him.

[Trout Mask Replica]

39 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

Yep, loads of people but I wonder how many are registered to vote, how many will vote and out of those, how many will vote Labour. I'd certainly go to a Corbyn meeting if one was held locally (unfortunate that he wasn't able to attend Glastonbury last year) but I wouldn't vote for him.

I guess that's the great unknown in this election. What I hope is that if they can all find their way to a cold and rainy spot in Gateshead, many of them on public transport due to the parking and security restrictions, on a Monday evening to wait hours in the rain then their trip to the polling station should be relatively straightforward. 

[DeanoL]

4 hours ago, babyblade41 said:

Can someone who supports Labour without question  tell me how the hell Diane Abbott is allowed out without supervision let alone be an MP??

I thought she was banned from media interviews ? 

 

If JC has any sense she should go straight away and not wait on the election going his way .

 

Sorry off now but could not ask the fully fledged what her qualities are 

I've never liked her but she was on that BBC politics programme as a presenter for years so she must have had some sort of likability at some point?

4 hours ago, eFestivals said:

I read an anecdotal thing the other day from someone involved in a Uni's SU, that said there's plenty of students going around proclaiming big interest in Jezza but who haven't registered to vote. I also saw a similar claim from a student on TV (tho he was advocating for the tories, so might have been telling porkies).

How great those factors might be I've no idea, but I do reckon those anecdotals are in the right ball park to a large degree, and that the action won't match the noise.

Interesting. I think there's a certain element of students that age (I remember being one) thinking they know better - if they're not in a marginal constituency why bother voting at all? Which is wrong on a larger scale (vote share influences stuff like TV coverage and such - as UKIP have shown) but not in terms of the election result. I find it hard to envisage anyone that's heavily pro-Corbyn in constituencies where it matters not registering.

3 hours ago, eFestivals said:

or alternatively, it would have been wise of the members to not choose someone with Corbyn's past.

It's not like they weren't warned about the costs of his baggage and what that would mean towards a likely victory.

Because they never really chose Corbyn. That's the 'funny' bit of it all. Corbyn would be no-one's choice for leader. Probably not even Corbyn's. He was put up as a joke candidate to make the leadership race 'interesting' and it backfired horrendously. But it's not like the left of the party ever picked him out as their actual representative.

[babyblade41]

1 minute ago, DeanoL said:

've never liked her but she was on that BBC politics programme as a presenter for years so she must have had some sort of likability at some point?

I'm  not saying I don't like her on a personal level she is probably a very nice person... I'm just saying that most peoples perception of her on interviews are of incompetence . If as some claim she gets very stressed in confrontational situations then to put herself up to those situations is ridiculous. 

I wish Boris would lurk elsewhere rather than be front of house !!

[Ommadawn]

I read Diane Abbott pulled out of an election debate on Womens Hour today. Apparently she's ill (again).

Edited June 6, 2017 by Ommadawn

[DeanoL]

10 minutes ago, babyblade41 said:

I'm  not saying I don't like her on a personal level she is probably a very nice person... I'm just saying that most peoples perception of her on interviews are of incompetence . If as some claim she gets very stressed in confrontational situations then to put herself up to those situations is ridiculous. 

It's become something of a self-fulfilling prophecy though. She got a few figures wrong in a few places but to be honest, retention of numbers isn't anywhere near the top of the list of things I want from a politician. But now the media are trying to catch her out constantly and every interview becomes an oral exam rather than an actual discussion of policy.

[babyblade41]

1 minute ago, DeanoL said:

It's become something of a self-fulfilling prophecy though. She got a few figures wrong in a few places but to be honest, retention of numbers isn't anywhere near the top of the list of things I want from a politician. But now the media are trying to catch her out constantly and every interview becomes an oral exam rather than an actual discussion of policy.

Now as you seem to be an intelligent person even you can't  believe  the "getting a few figures wrong"was well below what actually happened ... pulled out of womans hour this morning due to ill health (migraine possibly) 

The Dermot interview was embarrassing ...hopefully Labour can now rein her in before she does any more damage , and if not then I'm not sure what's going on 

[eFestivals]

22 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Because they never really chose Corbyn. That's the 'funny' bit of it all. Corbyn would be no-one's choice for leader. Probably not even Corbyn's. He was put up as a joke candidate to make the leadership race 'interesting' and it backfired horrendously. But it's not like the left of the party ever picked him out as their actual representative.

You're right that Corbyn wasn't Corbyn's own choice. He got to have a go purely because he said it was his turn. He knows he's not the best candidate amongst his own little clique.

He wasn't put up as 'a joke' tho. Labour have a tradition of having 'a leftie' in the contest to broaden the leadership debate ... they're just not meant to win.

 

[eFestivals]

26 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

I find it hard to envisage anyone that's heavily pro-Corbyn in constituencies where it matters not registering.

I don't disagree.... but whether all the students singing his praises are really "heavily pro-Corbyn" is a different thing. 

It's become the done thing in certain circles, to look the part. It doesn't mean they all follow thru and vote.

[Spindles]

Dianne Abbott's reputation as a local MP and as a politician in the areas she's been involved with has always been fairly strong.  Her ability in front of the media is certainly a weakness, but whether that makes her less competent in her dayjob is for individuals to decide.

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

He wasn't put up as 'a joke' tho. Labour have a tradition of having 'a leftie' in the contest to broaden the leadership debate ... they're just not meant to win.

This.  He was put up to represent the left, but at the time the narrative was that no one was going to support the left, it just proved to be wrong.  Had there been better options on the table at the time it might not have been so, but following the 2015 general election many felt that this was what the party needed.

[eFestivals]

23 minutes ago, babyblade41 said:

I'm  not saying I don't like her on a personal level she is probably a very nice person... I'm just saying that most peoples perception of her on interviews are of incompetence . If as some claim she gets very stressed in confrontational situations then to put herself up to those situations is ridiculous. 

I wish Boris would lurk elsewhere rather than be front of house !!

I disagree that most people's perception is 'incompetence'.

I'd say their perception is one of dislike due to one or more things Abbott has said or done (or even just her manner) in her 30+ years as an MP, and that dislike drives their responses to other things she might do, in the way that it does for the disliked (just look at the comments here about May, for example - there's no forgiveness for anything she does, everything is immediately labelled bad without much consideration of whether it really is).

As I said above I've a fair amount of sympathy for Abbott, but I'm not going to pretend she's not done plenty to cause people to take a genuine dislike to her. I get rather sick seeing people trying to defend her by claiming such things are only said because she's black &/or a woman - cos there's much more going on than merely those.

[Teddington]

34 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

I read Diane Abbott pulled out of an election debate on Womens Hour today. Apparently she's ill (again).

She had another car crash interview on Sky..........:)

 

For the Conservatives she is the gift that keeps on giving

[Teddington]

2 hours ago, Havors said:

Agree here. I don't see a problem with the lib dem policy of 1% extra income tax to help pay for it. People are selfish though and only care about their own pockets 

This is one thing I don't understand about Socialists. 

If people feel so strongly about this, why do they do it voluntarily?

  "I don't mind paying an extra 1% to save XYZ".

Well do it.  Donate.  Nothing is stopping you.

 

What they are ACTUALLY saying is "I want other people to pay more tax for something that I believe in".

[eFestivals]

10 minutes ago, Teddington said:

This is one thing I don't understand about Socialists. 

If people feel so strongly about this, why do they do it voluntarily?

  "I don't mind paying an extra 1% to save XYZ".

Well do it.  Donate.  Nothing is stopping you.

 

What they are ACTUALLY saying is "I want other people to pay more tax for something that I believe in".

an individual solution is not a socialist solution.

But you're not wrong that there's plenty who want it all at other people's expense. It's why the tory party is so popular, after all.

[Havors]

11 minutes ago, Teddington said:

This is one thing I don't understand about Socialists. 

If people feel so strongly about this, why do they do it voluntarily?

  "I don't mind paying an extra 1% to save XYZ".

Well do it.  Donate.  Nothing is stopping you.

 

What they are ACTUALLY saying is "I want other people to pay more tax for something that I believe in".

Don't be fucking stupid. Donate to what? Phone the NHS up and say hey I'd like to give you a pound.... 

You are right you don't understand socialism. And you don't have a clue what people are ACTUALLY saying you just cynically presume. 

[babyblade41]

very interesting opinions from a surgeon and Junior Dr re: NHS. on the 1.00 news

 

Surgeon says Tory will look after the NHS far better and it was labour who effectively messed up...

Junior Dr states the complete opposite ..... 

How the hell am I to know now !!!

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, Scruffylovemonster said:

What they are ACTUALLY saying is they want EVERYONE to pay.

sorry, but that would only be true if the 'socialist' offering was asking everyone to pay.

It's not. The fact that it's not has a lot to do with the popularity of that offer.

[Havors]

4 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

an individual solution is not a socialist solution.

But you're not wrong that there's plenty who want it all at other people's expense. It's why the tory party is so popular, after all.

indeed 

[Teddington]

23 minutes ago, Scruffylovemonster said:

What they are ACTUALLY saying is they want EVERYONE to pay. If only volunteers pay the extra, not enough would be raised and they'd be comparatively worse off than the non-payers. 

No they don't. 

[Teddington]

22 minutes ago, Havors said:

Don't be fucking stupid. Donate to what? Phone the NHS up and say hey I'd like to give you a pound.... 

You are right you don't understand socialism. And you don't have a clue what people are ACTUALLY saying you just cynically presume. 

 

So the NHS has stopped fundraising has it?  I could have sworn that they haven't at my local hospital.  Still I suppose you know better.....

 

 

[eFestivals]

17 minutes ago, Teddington said:

 

So the NHS has stopped fundraising has it?  I could have sworn that they haven't at my local hospital.  Still I suppose you know better.....

 

 

so what you're saying that just a few people should pay extra for everyone's benefit?

Cos I know a man with that plan. Will you be voting for him?

[stuartbert two hats]

For the record, I run my own business, so the reductions in corporation tax have benefited me directly.  I am in favour of corporation tax going up, even though I am nowhere near this top 95%.  

I am a socialist and I am happy to pay more tax.