Oh no - another festival right after the election!

[Neville Street]

This came on in the car today, Billy Bragg, Ideology. From my favourite BB album. Anyway, I thought "this still sounds current", so I checked the release date. 31 years old! A year before my first Glastonbury festival.

it made me feel old, and also frustrated that the lyrics could have been written this year.

When one voice rules the nation
Just because they're on top of the pile
Doesn't mean their vision is the clearest
The voices of the people
Are falling on deaf ears
Our politicians all become careerists
They must declare their interests
But not their company cars
Is there more to a seat in parliament
Then sitting on your arse
And the best of all this bad bunch
Are shouting to be heard
Above the sound of ideologies clashing
Outside the patient millions
Who put them into power
Expect a little more back for their taxes
Like school books, beds in hospitals
And peace in our bloody time
All they get is old men grinding axes
Who've built their private fortunes
On the things they can rely
The courts, the secret handshake
The Stock Exchange and the old school tie
For God and Queen and Country
All things they justify
Above the sound of ideologies clashing
God bless the civil service
The nations saving grace
While we expect democracy
They're laughing in our face
And although our cries get louder
Their laughter gets louder still
Above the sound of ideologies clashing

 

i guess we'll be singing along in Leftfield in a few weeks. Hopefully he'll do Levi Stubbs Tears too

NS

Edited April 19, 2017 by Neville Street
Fat fingers, typed 32 instead of 31

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

7 hours ago, Havors said:

Fuck it im moving to Denmark. Happiest country on the planet apparently and it seems pretty cool. 

 

7 hours ago, eFestivals said:

yep, and a country that needs £50Bn in reserves to back its currency.

There's some thinking around that necessary for some northern Britons, who might want to wake up to the fact that their share of the BoE reserves come in at around just £12Bn.

 

But that's only because their currency is pegged to the Euro as they are part of ERM II, the precursor to joining, so they have to buy and sell currency in order to keep it within a specific narrow tolerance. Every country has currency reserves, and Denmark use theirs accordingly. 

Edited April 19, 2017 by Deaf Nobby Burton

[SwedgeAntilles]

That's a good point actually, I'm moving to Sweden next year. Dunno why I'm even getting worked up! 

[arcade fireman]

The Independent aren't usually ones to print outright lies...and this wouldn't surprise me one bit. What a colossal prick of a man.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-stay-on-leader-labour-party-general-election-2017-party-conference-a7691911.html

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, arcade fireman said:

The Independent aren't usually ones to print outright lies...and this wouldn't surprise me one bit. What a colossal prick of a man.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-stay-on-leader-labour-party-general-election-2017-party-conference-a7691911.html

yep, I saw that a lot elsewhere yesterday - jezza will be crushed at the election, but is staying on as leader at least till September to try to push a rule change thru.

However, i'm not sure conference is going to be prepared to go along with the change. It's one thing making that change when Jezza is comfortably in position, it's another when he'll have suffered a crushing defeat which shows little appetite for the direction he'd like the party to go in and that leaders unsupported by MPs don't get public votes.

I see Mrs Balls came out of the woodwork yesterday. I suspect we'll be starting to see more of the competents.

[arcade fireman]

6 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

yep, I saw that a lot elsewhere yesterday - jezza will be crushed at the election, but is staying on as leader at least till September to try to push a rule change thru.

However, i'm not sure conference is going to be prepared to go along with the change. It's one thing making that change when Jezza is comfortably in position, it's another when he'll have suffered a crushing defeat which shows little appetite for the direction he'd like the party to go in and that leaders unsupported by MPs don't get public votes.

I see Mrs Balls came out of the woodwork yesterday. I suspect we'll be starting to see more of the competents.

Yeah the saving grace is that the McDonnell Amendment was touch and go anyway - a fair few of the unions would have voted against it for example. Hopefully the mood at conference in September will be sufficiently angry to vote down anything supported by Corbyn. But this only goes to show the character of the man so many have put their faith in. 

[eFestivals]

Just now, arcade fireman said:

Yeah the saving grace is that the McDonnell Amendment was touch and go anyway - a fair few of the unions would have voted against it for example. Hopefully the mood at conference in September will be sufficiently angry to vote down anything supported by Corbyn. But this only goes to show the character of the man so many have put their faith in. 

it's always been clear that he was more interested in capturing the party than the country.

If you want a laugh, have a read of this piece by a Momentum organiser...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/19/labour-win-election-join-fight-corbyn

[arcade fireman]

19 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

it's always been clear that he was more interested in capturing the party than the country.

If you want a laugh, have a read of this piece by a Momentum organiser...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/19/labour-win-election-join-fight-corbyn

Or this:

http://www.momentumhackney.com/news/50-days-work-labour-victory

Quote

The odds against Labour, but if enough of us bet a tenner on Labour to get the most seats or Corbyn to be the next PM, the odds will shorten and the narrative will begin to change.

One of the things that irritates me the most is how Labour has been infiltrated with complete and utter idiots. There's no other more nuanced word I can think of. Momentum just lack any intelligence whatsoever. How stupid must people be to believe rigging bookies odds is a viable strategy? 

Just hoping that one silver lining of the Tory win is that this merry band of morons gets silenced. Maybe then Labour can get rid of them, they can form their own protest/pressure group. Ordinarily I would have liked to see a competent left wing candidate for Labour on the ballot, but this time Momentum needs to be frozen out. 

Edited April 20, 2017 by arcade fireman

[RichardWaller]

18 hours ago, arcade fireman said:

The Press TV thing is 100% true. It's verifiable from the list of Member's interests in the House of Commons as all these payments need to be declared. The Iranian TV wanted him as he was a useful idiot, any British MP would have done for them.

Of course Len McCluskey isn't causing the housing crisis, but considering so much of Corbynism is about being principled, I find it odd that this is so frequently overlooked. 

And I agree there has been times where the negative coverage around Corbyn has been excessive. The "dancing" pictures at the war memorial. The hassle he got over the Article 50 vote when he was in a position any Labour leader would find no right answer for. 

But I am far, far more sick of Labour being led by a man demonstrably out of his depth. Who is incapable of dealing with even simple interactions with the press competently (see the maximum wage interview with the BBC a couple of months ago - all his doing). 

Whose supporters continually ignore all evidence of his unpopularity. Copeland was a disastrous result and yet we had his idiotic cheerleaders Diane Abbott, Shami Chakrabarti and John McDonell on the news embarrassingly claiming this was the fault of New Labour. 15-20 point polls being ignored because "who can trust the polls". I could go on and on...

I have voted Labour all my life and will do at this election. But until Corbyn and his friends are removed from the top of the Labour Party the electorate at large will never trust them to lead the country and so the policies - however good they are - become just an irrrelevance. 

Sorry for late reply, did manage to read this yesterday but busy day. I'm not doubting the Press TV thing happened, I'm not that much of a conspiracy theorist! Just confused as to why it did, why they wanted Corbyn and why he was willing to do it. I don't know what he spoke about. He's got his history as a human rights activist, would seem a bit odd if TV of a state with dubious human rights got him on to talk about human rights. Unless Press TV is Iran's Channel 4 or summat.Maybe it's a know your enemy type thing, whatever it is it's strange but it doesn't mean he endorses all Iran does.

What do you mean? How frequently are people taking loans from their employers to buy homes? Personally, I'd love that opportunity and can't imagine there'd be many who wouldn't. What's immoral about borrowing something you can afford to pay back?

I think the negative coverage has been excessive from the start. Yeah, the "dancing" thing, terrorist sympathising, Article 50 I wouldn't wish on anyone. The one that stands out most to me is John McTernan writing in the Daily Mail about how useless Corbyn is and how his supporters are Nazi stormtroopers. The Daily Mail... as if that rag knows what's good for Labour and the people?

I think there needs to be a balance. Don't know about anyone else, but I'm sick of men in expensive suits with all the media training going, who've rehearsed every sentence and body movement, who've practiced every gimmick and photo opportunity they can. I just find it a load of cynical acts, which for some reason are unavoidable. We judge a potential PM on how they look eating a bacon sandwich, how expensive their suit jacket is, what media training they have. And now that George Osborne's given up his Hatton seat to throw his weight behind the London Evening Standard I'd expect we can look forward to more of that.

Corbyn's unpopularity is as much a Labour creation as anybody else's. Like I said a few pages back, I wonder what Corbyn's ratings would be looking like if the party had backed him. Course I got a reply talking about his voting record against the whip, as if there's no difference between that and inundating the right wing press with interviews and articles to undermine not only Corbyn, but the Labour Party. So many Labour Party MPs, councillors and members have helped spread the message, that they've been doing the Tories' work for them.

 

[Havors]

I think maybe we should have to past a 'Voting Theory test' before you are allowed to vote? Like a driving theory test. 

[eFestivals]

46 minutes ago, RichardWaller said:

Just confused as to why it did, why they wanted Corbyn and why he was willing to do it.

the wanted someone of standing to praise the Iranian regime. Jezza obliged.

That's the same Iranian regime which is warring in Syria, where the USA and UK  are evil but the Iranians get praised.

[RichardWaller]

Just now, eFestivals said:

the wanted someone of standing to praise the Iranian regime. Jezza obliged.

That's the same Iranian regime which is warring in Syria, where the USA and UK  are evil but the Iranians get praised.

What did he say?

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, RichardWaller said:

What did he say?

can't remember, tho i do remember the general theme. I'm sure you'll find by googling.

[RichardWaller]

18 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

can't remember, tho i do remember the general theme. I'm sure you'll find by googling.

You can't remember, but you jump to the conclusion that he's praising the Iranian regime? Suppose that'd suit you.

[eFestivals]

33 minutes ago, RichardWaller said:

You can't remember, but you jump to the conclusion that he's praising the Iranian regime? Suppose that'd suit you.

I remember he was praising the regime. I'm the one who's read about it, remember?

And you're relying on making up a rebuttal on the basis of nothing at all.

And then you wonder why people are political idiots?

Edited April 20, 2017 by eFestivals

[RichardWaller]

3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I remember he was praising the regime. I'm the one who's read about, it remember?

And you're relying on making up a rebuttal on the basis of nothing at all.

And then you wonder why people are political idiots?

Ok, I've found a bit of his Press TV experience, you disagree with this? 

Maybe you're better at searching than I am, if he praised the regime please show me? You've told me that he did, prove it. Even if he did praise a part of a regime it doesn't automatically follow that he's praising human rights abuses or whatever. Most people won't agree or disagree with anyone all the time, I'm sure even you must've agreed with Corbyn at least once!

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, RichardWaller said:

Ok, I've found a bit of his Press TV experience, you disagree with this? 

Maybe you're better at searching than I am, if he praised the regime please show me? You've told me that he did, prove it. Even if he did praise a part of a regime it doesn't automatically follow that he's praising human rights abuses or whatever. Most people won't agree or disagree with anyone all the time, I'm sure even you must've agreed with Corbyn at least once!

I have better things to do than cover old ground getting people up to speed who've only recently started to take an interest.

If that doesn't suit you, get back to me after you've put in a minimum of 14 hours every day and then someone says you can't leave work until you've proven to them something they didn't know.

[eFestivals]

but i've found it for you anyway. Not necessarily all on press TV can't be bothered to re-read it all), but words about Iran's warring in Syria being "helpful".

http://hurryupharry.org/2016/09/01/jeremy-corbyn-and-khomeinist-iran/

all with 'helpful' videos of Jezza speaking the words. 

A gentler kind of mass murder of unarmed civilians

Edited April 20, 2017 by eFestivals

[RichardWaller]

12 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I have better things to do than cover old ground getting people up to speed who've only recently started to take an interest.

If that doesn't suit you, get back to me after you've put in a minimum of 14 hours every day and then someone says you can't leave work until you've proven to them something they didn't know.

If you're not willing to back yourself up, fine. I'll draw my own conclusions from that, cheers.

[RichardWaller]

14 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

but i've found it for you anyway. Not necessarily all on press TV can't be bothered to re-read it all), but words about Iran's warring in Syria being "helpful".

http://hurryupharry.org/2016/09/01/jeremy-corbyn-and-khomeinist-iran/

all with 'helpful' videos of Jezza speaking the words. 

A gentler kind of mass murder of unarmed civilians

Did you skip the bit where he said "nobody, including this country, should possess nuclear weapons"? 

[eFestivals]

13 minutes ago, RichardWaller said:

Did you skip the bit where he said "nobody, including this country, should possess nuclear weapons"? 

and that excuses his praise of Iran's warring in Syria, how exactly?

(but anyway ... Jezza can't even work out if he's for or against nukes nowadays - that was part of his re-launch fuck-up if i'm remembering rightly).

 

[RichardWaller]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

and that excuses his praise of Iran's warring in Syria, how exactly?

(but anyway ... Jezza can't even work out if he's for or against nukes nowadays - that was part of his re-launch fuck-up if i'm remembering rightly).

 

I saw in your article that it says "He moves on to praising Iran for being helpful in the Syrian conflict. No, really." without offering a quote under it so rewatching the video. Ok, he says that he voted against Britain bombing Syria, that we're not gonna get peace there through more bombing, and talks about Iran helping to bring about a chemical weapons agreement with the Syrian government and working towards Geneva II. I don't know what Iran have been doing in Syria, but if that's right is it a bad thing?

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, RichardWaller said:

I don't know what Iran have been doing in Syria, but if that's right is it a bad thing?

get back to me when you're up to speed. I don't have the time to bring you up to speed on all the politics of the world.

But consider this: Jezza says that the foriegn involvement of the UK and the USA in Syria - bombing ISIS (and no one else) - is evil, but you're suggesting that the Iranian foreign involvement in Syria, bombing anyone that's not on-side with Assad, might be OK.

[arcade fireman]

4 hours ago, RichardWaller said:

What do you mean? How frequently are people taking loans from their employers to buy homes? Personally, I'd love that opportunity and can't imagine there'd be many who wouldn't. What's immoral about borrowing something you can afford to pay back?

Because people buying second homes in London is part of what is making housing unaffordable there. It's pushing up property prices far beyond what most people can afford. People like Len McCluskey (salary 140k and rising every year despite much of his members getting pay freezes) shouldn't even need help to buy the property they desire in London. For him to beat the socialist drum and do this at the same time is immensely hypocritical - particularly considering the huge profit he will make on that sale.

The fact you'd love your employer to do that is besides the point - most of us don't have employers who can do that. The fact there are a minority of people like him buying second homes that do have that ability is what makes housing an impossible dream for most workers in London. 

Quote

 

I think the negative coverage has been excessive from the start. Yeah, the "dancing" thing, terrorist sympathising, Article 50 I wouldn't wish on anyone. The one that stands out most to me is John McTernan writing in the Daily Mail about how useless Corbyn is and how his supporters are Nazi stormtroopers. The Daily Mail... as if that rag knows what's good for Labour and the people?

I think there needs to be a balance. Don't know about anyone else, but I'm sick of men in expensive suits with all the media training going, who've rehearsed every sentence and body movement, who've practiced every gimmick and photo opportunity they can. I just find it a load of cynical acts, which for some reason are unavoidable. We judge a potential PM on how they look eating a bacon sandwich, how expensive their suit jacket is, what media training they have. And now that George Osborne's given up his Hatton seat to throw his weight behind the London Evening Standard I'd expect we can look forward to more of that.

 

You're sick of men in expensive suits with media training?! 

Okay let's forget politics for a second. Let's talk about job interviews. If you turned up for a prestigious job interview, had been trained for it and were wearing a smart suit, and you knew the guy next to you had no training and was dressed in the sorts of "suits" that Jezza is in half the time, who do you think would get the job? 

Being Leader of the Opposition is in effect a five year long (or in this case a two year) interview to be PM. They are being judged by the electorate as whether they're fit to lead the country. And a lot of what they're judged on are things that you think are irrelevant like presentation, speaking skills, how they're dressed. But that's exactly the same in the real world as it is in politics.  

All those things that you are sick of are actually really important. Media training is really, REALLY important. I can guarantee you Corbyn will have had plenty of media training since he's become leader, but you can't teach an old dog new tricks. Yes large sections of the media aren't fair at him but equally he is terrible with the media. He makes it far too easy for them.

Look at this, the day Labour announced their "maximum wage" policy (in fact it was talking about a ratio between the lowest and the highest paid) - Corbyn is repeatedly evasive on it and falls into the trap of describing it as a "maximum wage":

Look at this - hiding from a reporter and getting his aide to have a go at them! It was a completely reasonable question...

And let's not even get started on the Virgin Trains fiasco. The stupid man records a video from the vestibule of a train talking about how the train is "ram packed". The train company Virgin has a clear prerogative to discredit a man who wants to renationalise the railways. And sure enough they release a video where he walks past scores of empty seats. It doesn't matter they had tickets on - he could have still sat in them. How could he be so stupid to film that in the first place? There was a perfectly good point to make about railways in this country but Corbyn managed to undermine it completely. This is where being actually good at spin and working the media is important, or else you'll be forever discredited like Corbyn has been.

Yes much of the media have been against him but I can guarantee they'll be against his successor. However if his successor is actually good with the media (which needs a combination of natural abilities and training) and presents themselves a bit more competently they will find it a hell of a lot more difficult than the absolute field day they've had with this idiot. 

Quote

 

Corbyn's unpopularity is as much a Labour creation as anybody else's. Like I said a few pages back, I wonder what Corbyn's ratings would be looking like if the party had backed him. Course I got a reply talking about his voting record against the whip, as if there's no difference between that and inundating the right wing press with interviews and articles to undermine not only Corbyn, but the Labour Party. So many Labour Party MPs, councillors and members have helped spread the message, that they've been doing the Tories' work for them.

 

Rubbish. Absolute and utter horse shit. I'm sorry, but this is not backed up by any of the evidence whatsoever. 

He started his leadership with the worst approval ratings of any new party leader on record. How can you blame that on the Labour Party?! Of course the right wing media played their part but it's also true when he was first elected much of the public knew little about him. The Labour leadership contest generated a lot of interest in left wing circles but passed a lot of the country by. 

Do you really think most of the country really makes their mind up on Corbyn based on what Labour MPs say? Certainly apart from the odd comments from Labour affiliated people in the media most have kept their mouths shut since the second leadership election. They certainly have not "inundated" the right wing press. Just 14% of those polled nationwide back Corbyn as their preferred PM (47% for May, 28% for neither). It's absolute fantasy to think anything but a tiny amount of that gap is down to what Labour MPs have said. Maybe he would have picked up a few per cent but that's about it. 

Corbyn is doing the Tories' work for them. There's a reason why lots of Tories paid the 3 quid to vote for him first time round (of course he would have won with or without that help). He's providing an utterly ineffectual opposition. Much of the country have never and will never take him seriously regardless of Labour support. He is a poor orator. He's not particularly intelligent. His strategy of only appealing to a narrow section of the electorate has always been doomed to failure. Any politicians poor approval ratings are their own responsibility far more than they are anyone else's. The fact folks like you still fail to see how this is primarily Corbyn's fault is part of the reason he's leading Labour to a historic defeat and part of the reason Labour may still be in a lot of trouble when trying to find a competent leader to take them out of this mess. 

[Waapster]

3 hours ago, eFestivals said:

 

(but anyway ... Jezza can't even work out if he's for or against nukes nowadays - that was part of his re-launch fuck-up if i'm remembering rightly).

 

He is in favour of the submarines that deliver nuclear missiles but they wouldn't carry any missiles. (I'm not even making this up).