WWE

[lharris92]

seems like Sting did well to finish his match after potentially getting a serious injury, was the show decent or not as am considering watching it at some point this week

[DomDom1984]

Decent show but full of shite finishes.

[metallimuse]

I heard Sting died

[DomDom1984]

Would appear that his career did. It's a shame, but at the same time, he gets to go out with what was a hell of a performance. His best since WCW.

[Andre91]

Rollins is the man (as if we didn't know that already). Arguably the most talented wrestler since Shawn Michaels imo.

[pink_triangle]

It was a solid ppv, not great matches, but no poor ones. However will probably merge in with the others in a years time.

I had a problem with the booking of the main event. Having a heel world champion wrestle 2 consecutive matches, with nobody in his corner and without cheating makes little sense to me.

[pink_triangle]

Rollins is the man (as if we didn't know that already). Arguably the most talented wrestler since Shawn Michaels imo.

I think that's a bit of an overstatement and I would certainly argue against. I guess it depends how you define "wrestler". If you are talking purely in terms of technique then I couldn't rank him above the likes of Benoit and Eddy, neither would I expect him to be with his experience level compared to when they peaked. If we are talking the whole package then as a performer I couldn't rank him above the rock. He may not have done flashy moves, but the fact is he didn't need to. In terms of putting him on that pedestal, I would say come back to me when he has had a few more great matches/feuds under his belt.

In terms of where I would rank him, in terms of athletic ability he is right there with the best. I think he has got a lot to learn in terms of psychology (again not surprising with his level of experience) I think at times he does moves for the sake of doing moves and I don't think he sold being in the second match as much as he should. I also at times don't understand why I am supposed to like it, watching his matches without the background you often wouldn't know if he was heel or babyface. Part of the job of a great heel is getting fans to root for the babyfaces and Im not sure he is over enough as a heel to achieve this yet.

His mic work is good, but not great. He can deliver in the ring, but I think that some of the out of ring feud development can be a bit dull, partially the righter fault and partially his I suspect.

In conclusion he is young and likely to improve on his weaknesses, but I think he is far from the complete package that some make out. Certainly not at the level to be compared to the greats in my view.

[jump]

I think that's a bit of an overstatement and I would certainly argue against. I guess it depends how you define "wrestler". If you are talking purely in terms of technique then I couldn't rank him above the likes of Benoit and Eddy, neither would I expect him to be with his experience level compared to when they peaked. If we are talking the whole package then as a performer I couldn't rank him above the rock. He may not have done flashy moves, but the fact is he didn't need to. In terms of putting him on that pedestal, I would say come back to me when he has had a few more great matches/feuds under his belt.

In terms of where I would rank him, in terms of athletic ability he is right there with the best. I think he has got a lot to learn in terms of psychology (again not surprising with his level of experience) I think at times he does moves for the sake of doing moves and I don't think he sold being in the second match as much as he should. I also at times don't understand why I am supposed to like it, watching his matches without the background you often wouldn't know if he was heel or babyface. Part of the job of a great heel is getting fans to root for the babyfaces and Im not sure he is over enough as a heel to achieve this yet.

His mic work is good, but not great. He can deliver in the ring, but I think that some of the out of ring feud development can be a bit dull, partially the righter fault and partially his I suspect.

In conclusion he is young and likely to improve on his weaknesses, but I think he is far from the complete package that some make out. Certainly not at the level to be compared to the greats in my view.

 

I wouldn't say he's the best since Shawn Michaels (although Michaels retired after both Eddie & Benoit's deaths as well as being of the same generation so those comparisons wouldn't strictly count imo) but alot of the complaints you've mentioned are largely down to WWE's crappy creative team rather than being flaws with himself.

Edited September 22, 2015 by jump

[pink_triangle]

I wouldn't say he's the best since Shawn Michaels (although Michaels retired after both Eddie & Benoit's deaths as well as being of the same generation so those comparisons wouldn't strictly count imo) but alot of the complaints you've mentioned are largely down to WWE's crappy creative team rather than being flaws with himself.

I think some wrestlers eg rollins,cm punk, bryan often get a free ride where their positives are praised and their negatives brushed away as bad booking. I see it as a partnership in terms of both good and bad.

I was looking at the comparison in terms of when they peaked, rather than retired and agree it depends what criteria you use. However even using your definition I would place edge (did he retire after hbk?), jericho, cena, lesnar, punk and bryan ahead of rollins. Although I accept rollins is better than all were at his age,apart from maybe brock.

[jump]

I think some wrestlers eg rollins,cm punk, bryan often get a free ride where their positives are praised and their negatives brushed away as bad booking. I see it as a partnership in terms of both good and bad.

I was looking at the comparison in terms of when they peaked, rather than retired and agree it depends what criteria you use. However even using your definition I would place edge (did he retire after hbk?), jericho, cena, lesnar, punk and bryan ahead of rollins. Although I accept rollins is better than all were at his age,apart from maybe brock.

 

I think bad booking is very much a valid thing with the recent crop of wrestlers, in today's WWE lines and matches have the creative team hand in it and has too much micromanagement in general where creative have to change their plans constantly due to Vince changing his mind all the time compared to the 80's and 90's.

[pink_triangle]

I think bad booking is very much a valid thing with the recent crop of wrestlers, in today's WWE lines and matches have the creative team hand in it and has too much micromanagement in general where creative have to change their plans constantly due to Vince changing his mind all the time compared to the 80's and 90's.

I don't doubt there's bad booking, although there is also good booking, but bookers don't get the credit when things are done well.

I also get the impression that many internet fans are more willing to use bad booking as an excuse to cover up for wrestlers that they like, as opposed to those they dont

[jump]

I don't doubt there's bad booking, although there is also good booking, but bookers don't get the credit when things are done well.

I also get the impression that many internet fans are more willing to use bad booking as an excuse to cover up for wrestlers that they like, as opposed to those they dont

 

Bad booking is also mostly used to complain about the current state of the WWE, it's been really shoddy for awhile now.

[pink_triangle]

Bad booking is also mostly used to complain about the current state of the WWE, it's been really shoddy for awhile now.

I think its a mixed bag. People always focus on the bad, but I think cena, owens, ryback, neville, new day and brock are all examples of people who have been generally well booked over the last year.

[jump]

I think its a mixed bag. People always focus on the bad, but I think cena, owens, ryback, neville, new day and brock are all examples of people who have been generally well booked over the last year.

 

New Day have only gotten good recently against bad booking, them as baby faces was a terrible and it was only themselves turning the gimmick around saved it. I do like the US open challenge though. Ryback with The Miz & Big Show has been grating for me, Neville has been ok but hardly brilliant and Brock's had too many screwy finishes which would be fine if you actually saw him regularly.

 

TBH I can't really remember a feud I cared about since Bryan at 'mania last year, maybe Stardust (though that's more to do with me finding it curious they are openly addressing it's a gimmick rather it's something riveting) and the return of The Dudleys.

[pink_triangle]

I think Neville has been booked perfectly. Too many newcomers are either pushed too hard straight away, or lost in the shuffle. Neville has been kept relevant without being overexposed. I'm sure he will be succesfull, but see it being a slow burn. Cena has had his best year ever in my view. I think its collaberation between performer and booker.

[jump]

^I don't think anyone has ever made the claim Cena has been booked poorly (aside from it's the same shtick over and over again) he's the main guy after all.

Edited September 22, 2015 by jump

[Andre91]

Cena has consistently been involved in exceptional matches this year more than any other in his career, I think.

As for RAW this week, I didn't think much to it. The whole Kane thing isn't something I personally want to be seeing in 2015.

Paige's promo was fantastic. She said what everybody else has been thinking for a while. It felt very natural to me too, perfectly paced to be an actual rant as opposed to some of the overly scripted worked shoots we have seen in the past.

[jump]

Cena has consistently been involved in exceptional matches this year more than any other in his career, I think.

 

We are talking about his booking though.

[DomDom1984]

WWE are not bad at booking people when they're in the midcard. They have messed up every single attempt at making a new star for years though. Which is why the Seth Rollins booking is poor now. Because they have no idea what to do with him now. The same as they never have any idea what to do with people. The idea seems to be "have them lose to Cena" and then that's it.

[luckysalt]

Would appear that his career did. It's a shame, but at the same time, he gets to go out with what was a hell of a performance. His best since WCW.

 

Not sure I agree with that, he had lots of great matches in TNA.

 

Even right at the end of his TNA run, his match v Bully Ray was absolutely fantastic, the one where Bully pulled back the ring padding and piledrove him on the wood. Great match.

 

---

 

Not going to quote other things cus I'll be here all day, im happy to see this thread alive and kicking again tho

 

The whole Kane storyline I could not give a fuck about, Rollins I agree is up there, he's an absolute highlight of the WWE product and they made the right choice putting the belt on him at Mania he proven that since. But a Kane feud isn't going to do anyone any favours. I hope it last's one PPV match and thats it and I doubt I'll watch it.

[luckysalt]

OMG I just saw the guy who ran in the ring to pretend to be the 3rd man at NOC, has been sent to jail for 10 days and he is 37 years old! 

 

A THIRTY SEVEN YEAR OLD MAN! WTF dude. What a dick.

[DomDom1984]

luckysalt, on 23 Sept 2015 - 12:21 AM, said:

Not sure I agree with that, he had lots of great matches in TNA.

 

Even right at the end of his TNA run, his match v Bully Ray was absolutely fantastic, the one where Bully pulled back the ring padding and piledrove him on the wood. Great match.

 

The only truly great performance I can remember from Sting in TNA was against Samoa Joe on a PPV. Think it was a Bound for Glory actually.

 

The improvements Rollins has made since joining WWE have been terrific. Every aspect of his game has been improved a ridiculous amount.

[When Jokers Attack]

Cena vs Rollins for the US title in a cage match at the MSG network special. Now that is a perfect example of bad booking. Having your world champion lose for the third time in 2 weeks to Cena. Why not make it for the wwe title, Rollins should have no interest in the us title at this point. 

 

And how could I forgot, we are also getting Sheamus vs Randy Orton!

[pink_triangle]

Cena vs Rollins for the US title in a cage match at the MSG network special. Now that is a perfect example of bad booking. Having your world champion lose for the third time in 2 weeks to Cena. Why not make it for the wwe title, Rollins should have no interest in the us title at this point. 

 

And how could I forgot, we are also getting Sheamus vs Randy Orton!

I can accept Rollins v Cena, I suspect there will be a screwy finish with Kane interfering to set up a feud with Rollins. I also think Sheamus V Orton is always a solid match.

The feud I hope doesn't continue is Rusev V Ziggler. The 2 have no chemistry, Ziggler and Lana have no chemistry and Rusev and Summer Rae have no chemistry. On top of that the booking has been terrible. Worst feud of the year for me.

[When Jokers Attack]

Yeah the Rusev/Ziggler feud had went on too long and has never interested me.

I'd like to see Ziggler turn heel again and feud with Cena or even Orton, maybe even just keep him face and feud with Owens? I don't knowjust want to see him get a decent mid/upper card feud. He's been pretty boring and uninteresting for a while now.