The Dirty Independence Question

[eFestivals]

Is it because she`s young you don`t think she has opinions or because her last job was in a chip shop ?

Nope, it's because career-politican-no-experience-baaaaad, unless SNP in which case good. It's not her opinions people have trouble with, it's more the contrary and inconsistent policies of her fan club.

What happened to the "Labour left me" thing? Oh, turns out it was a lie after all. From Mhari, and from just about everyone else.

There's a fantastically laughable Kevin McKenna piece in yesterday's Guardian, where he claims a moral superiority for the Scots (fancy that, eh? More than just a civic nationalism after all, it also has ethnic exceptionalism).  Even a large number of Scots are laughing at him.

 

One of the basis he mentions for doing so is Sturgeon's "we'll take 1,000 Syrians, are't we the nice people", totally forgetting that even pig-fucker Dave bettered it by (proportionally) double, and that Sturgeon's words were only uttered in the first place to try and keep up with the offer Cooper made before Sturgeon opened her mouth.

[LJS]

You seem to have mis-read the white paper.

While it said "we love the EU", the detail was a rejection of the EU. It demanding that the EU give up its core principles, to be remodelled on a purely Scottish basis.

The rejection of EU principles included-

1. no free movement of people.

2. the allowance of racist policies.

3. the rejection of EU economic principles.

4. the rejection of EU fiscal principles.

5. the rejection of EU entry requirements

6. the rejection of the legal basis of international treaties.

7. the rejection of the democratic principles of the Vienna Convention.

There were many more, too. Those are just the ones I remember.

Such good Europeans.

Ah, where would We be without Neil's unique & imaginative interpretation of the white paper.

AKA pish.

[eFestivals]

Ah, where would We be without Neil's unique & imaginative interpretation of the white paper.

AKA pish.

 

Did Salmond claim Scotland would keep its racist Uni fees policy? Yes he did.

 

Did he claim that Scotland would be allowed EU entry without a central bank? Yes he did.

 

Did he claim Scotland would be allowed entry without its own currency? Yes he did.

 

Did he claim Scotland would be granted immediate entry despite not meeting many more entry requirements? Yes he did.

 

Did he claim the existing EU treaties meant fuck all towards Scotland's entry? Yes he did.

 

Did he write a draft constition against the Vienna Convention principles (which are incorporated into the EU principles)? Yes he did.

 

Some of us paid attention. Others made it up from their heads for the glory of Scotland.

 

Now, please do detail how the things I outline from the white paper are accepted within the EU treaties.....

 

I'm waiting. .

Edited September 28, 2015 by eFestivals

[LJS]

Did Salmond claim Scotland would keep its racist Uni fees policy? Yes he did.

Did he claim that Scotland would be allowed EU entry without a central bank? Yes he did.

Did he claim Scotland would be allowed entry without its own currency? Yes he did.

Did he claim Scotland would be granted immediate entry despite not meeting many more entry requirements? Yes he did.

Did he claim the existing EU treaties meant fuck all towards Scotland's entry? Yes he did.

Did he write a draft constition against the Vienna Convention principles (which are incorporated into the EU principles)? Yes he did.

Some of paid attention. Others made it up from their heads for the glory of Scotland.

Now, please do detail how the things I outline from the white paper are accepted within the EU treaties.....

I'm waiting. .

I have no interest in discussing your recycled pish. It's over a year ago now. Time to move on, Neil.

[eFestivals]

I have no interest in discussing your recycled pish. It's over a year ago now. Time to move on, Neil.

 

you were interested enough to make a false statement that iScotland intended to play its part in the EU.

 

That doesn't reconcile with the facts of the white paper rejection of core EU principles, the stuff I've listed.

 

And your answer is .? "I'm not playing anymore".

[gary1979666]

 

7% of UKIP want to stay in the EU???!!!! Huh??

[eFestivals]

7% of UKIP want to stay in the EU???!!!! Huh??

 

most UKIP voters are voting against immigration, not against the EU.

 

And for many of those who are anti-immigrant, it's the immigrants with a 'funny skin colour' that are their issue, not white Christians.

 

Given that EU immigration is around balanced and that the 'infux' of immigrants is actually from non-EU countries, they're perhaps the most sensible of UKIP voters, because they're at least matching up the facts with what they're wanting and coming out with a solution that makes sense for their wants.

 

Most kippers bang on about how we should have control of immigration, when the immigration they dislike so much is the immigration we have absolute control of already. It's these ones who are the fruitcakes, because of their fact-free take on things.

[russycarps]

So Goldman sachs predict oil could hit $20 a barrel.

All the raving nationalists must wake up in the middle of the night screaming about what would have happened to Scotland had common sense not prevailed and they were comprehensively defeated.

And if they aren't, it's because they are too stupid to understand the implications of these low prices.

$20 though. WOW.

Edited September 29, 2015 by russycarps

[LJS]

So Goldman sachs predict oil could hit $20 a barrel.

All the raving nationalists must wake up in the middle of the night screaming about what would have happened to Scotland had common sense not prevailed and they were comprehensively defeated.

And if they aren't, it's because they are too stupid to understand the implications of these low prices.

$20 though. WOW.

Slept like a log last night, Russy.

[eFestivals]

Slept like a log last night, Russy.

 

that's because you're not having to worry about the oil price.

 

Do you think a country's wealth impacts onto its ability to deliver social justice, LJS?

 

Or is it so unimportant that all of your social justice dreams could be delivered to the people of the world's poorest state despite its lack of resources with which to do so?

 

Is Britain's social justice shrinking because we're rich, or because we're not as rich as we thought we were?

[russycarps]

Slept like a log last night, Russy.

 

 

of course you did! We have already established you are well insulated from any of the trifling little £15bn (or higher, if the $20 oil price comes about) cuts that would have to be made, so why wouldn't you?

 

Independence no matter what, the ljs mantra.

[eFestivals]

it's not on the BBC homepage.

 

Its not on the BBC Scottish News page

 

It's not on the BBC Scotland polititcs page

 

Its not on the BBC Tayside & Central Scotland page which covers all the big news

.

 

It's on the BBC homepage

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news

 

It's on the BBC Scottish News page

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/scotland

 

It's on the BBC Scotland polititcs page

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/scotland/scotland_politics

 

Its on the BBC Tayside & Central Scotland page which covers all the big news

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/scotland/tayside_and_central

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-34380607

 

and it's formal questions in the Scottish Parliament.

 

But it's no big issue, and nothing that needs looking into to check its kosher.

[LJS]

It's on the BBC homepage

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news

It's on the BBC Scottish News page

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/scotland

It's on the BBC Scotland polititcs page

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/scotland/scotland_politics

Its on the BBC Tayside & Central Scotland page which covers all the big news

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/scotland/tayside_and_central

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-34380607

and it's formal questions in the Scottish Parliament.

But it's no big issue, and nothing that needs looking into to check its kosher.

5 weeks seems quite a long time though, if it is of any great significance, wouldn't you think?

[LJS]

of course you did! We have already established you are well insulated from any of the trifling little £15bn (or higher, if the $20 oil price comes about) cuts that would have to be made, so why wouldn't you?

Independence no matter what, the ljs mantra.

This is LJS's butler.

LJS (or Sir as I call him) can't reply on person as he is currently in his villa in Tuscany.

He has asked me to assure you that he is just an ordinary working fellow of no great means, & if the rest of the Scots are in the doo doo post Indy, he will be in it with them.

I fear that may leave me without gainful employment, do you think that Fish chap could use a butler?

[eFestivals]

5 weeks seems quite a long time though, if it is of any great significance, wouldn't you think?

 

for much of that time the SG has been closed, hasn't it?

 

Anyway, it's getting scrutiny, which should happen to dodgy looking things from around govt.

 

You of course give the SNP a free pass for everything. You're the tory's ideal mug punter.

[LJS]

for much of that time the SG has been closed, hasn't it?

 

Anyway, it's getting scrutiny, which should happen to dodgy looking things from around govt.

 

You of course give the SNP a free pass for everything. You're the tory's ideal mug punter.

 

I have no objection to people questioning the actions of government. Indeed that is a crucial role of the opposition. 

 

This just has never seemed like much of a story to me & still doesn't after what I've read today.

[zahidf]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34395392

Looks like the snp may have a by election on their hands soon...

[LJS]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34395392

Looks like the snp may have a by election on their hands soon...

 

Not necessarily.... but they currently have one less MP

 

SNP MP withdraws from whip after police open property deal probe

 

http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/news/1329730-snp-mp-michelle-thomson-withdraws-from-party-whip-after-property-probe/

 

Just for the record, if she is guilty as charged, she should be Kicked out the SNP & kicked out of parliament.

Edited September 29, 2015 by LJS

[eFestivals]

I have no objection to people questioning the actions of government. Indeed that is a crucial role of the opposition. 

 

This just has never seemed like much of a story to me & still doesn't after what I've read today.

there's no story in the SNP-approved idea that no business in Scotland is permitted to fail because that failure would reduce the Scottish economy?

Free bailouts for everyone from Scotland, everyone. Let's get up for the endless free money - even for the not-failing companies.

Hislop's justifications makes the tories sound ethical, and Labour sound economically competent.

Edited September 30, 2015 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

So, that T in the Park thing ....

With 6 weeks of prior questioning and time to prepare papers and answers, 600 pages of heavily redacted paperwork was released just the evening before the debate, to ensure there could be no proper scrutiny.

The minister in charge failed to give any justifications for why a profitable company should have a profits top-up with public money apart from this one....

 

"T in the Park will leave Scotland if we don't buy them off".

(paraphrased, but that's what it was).

 

Aside from being utterly ridiculed by another SNP MSP on the committee, it's comedy gold because.....

 

Just a year ago companies that threatened to leave Scotland were the enemies of Scotland and not so gloriously Scottish they should be given free taxpayers cash to top up their already-big profits with.

 

You couldn't make it up.

Edited October 1, 2015 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

Not necessarily.... but they currently have one less MP

 

SNP MP withdraws from whip after police open property deal probe

 

http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/news/1329730-snp-mp-michelle-thomson-withdraws-from-party-whip-after-property-probe/

 

Just for the record, if she is guilty as charged, she should be Kicked out the SNP & kicked out of parliament.

 

 

Not just an SNP MP.

 

This woman was the leader of the SNP front organisation "Business for Scotland", which was claimed as independent of the SNP (really? she's now an SNP MP ) and showing the best of Scottish business.

 

And it turns out the best businessperson the yessers could find to front Business for Scotland is a buy-to-let 'tycoon', who leaches off tax-payers cash to make her own fortune, clearly with total approval of the SNP.... so much so, this woman is now the SNP's business spokesperson at Westminster.

 

You couldn't make it up.

[eFestivals]

Interesting times around Michelle Thomson.

 

Firstly, from what I've been reading, it looks like she's bang to rights over this fraud investigation .... if not for actual fraud herself (tho it looks likely!) certainly of the most tory-like sharp practices anyone might ever do.

 

So now we have the bright yellow tories to add to the "they're a tory" screams.

 

But it's the stuff around the supposedly 'independent' Business for Scotland which is the most interesting.

 

It's come out that Business for Scotland was actually in the control of St Nicola's hubby (who is also chief exec of the SNP), and not the independent 'grassroots' organisation that it was claimed to be, but where SNP connections were always denied by the SNP. It'll be interesting to see how much of the rest of that much-lauded 'grassroots' campaign were also SNP fronts.

 

It was so much in the control of St Nicola's hubby that he personally suspended Thomson from her paid job fronting Business for Scotland (tho she continued fronting it unpaid).

 

What hasn't come out yet is why she was suspended, which could be interesting, or what hubby was telling wifey.

 

It was only after the indyref that she was lined up as an MP candidate, despite her having been suspended from BfS.

 

And it was only after May that she was appointed as Business spokesperson at Westminster for the SNP .... despite her 'business skills' being the buying of distressed-finances houses from the desperate (including cancer sufferers) rather than anything laudable.

 

She's definitely a bright yellow tory. What I think should be revealed is whether she was that bright yellow tory with the full approval of the Tartan Tories. It certainly looks like it at the moment.

 

(and i'm also reading that if she's forced to resign as an MP, the by-election is likely to be won by the LibDems so they'll be one less Westminster seat for the SNP to boast about [them boasting about Westminster is priceless just by itself ].... tho I'm taking the word of others about that)

 

Yes, it's just another MP scandal like all of the other MP scandals ... but it's a scandal involving the only party who like to paint themselves as different and nothing like the others and whiter than white.

[Comfy Bean]

Whether you are a YES or NO for Scotland being an Independent Country, do we think the recent comments from Davidson & Dugdale will help or harm the Indy cause ?

 

Not bothering with any quotes from NS, we`ve been over what she thinks  

 

 

 "It's that we, the Scottish Conservatives, are the distinctive voice of the two million Scots who want to stay part of the UK.

 

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/tories-ready-voice-no-voters-233941911.html#pVPolEX

 

 

Labour MSPs and MPs will be free to campaign for Scottish independence if there is another referendum, party leader Kezia Dugdale has said.

Read more: http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/kezia-dugdale-labour-msps-free-to-back-end-of-uk-1-3893046#ixzz3np2TjLBd 
 

[eFestivals]

neither. The indy cause harms itself. You know, with bullshit and fantasies.

 

You've bought it so you don't see it, but plenty have their eyes open.

 

And from what I'm reading more eyes are slowly being opened. The Michelle Thomson thing, for example, has wised some up to the fact that the business case was incredibly weak and that the SNP are liars.

 

The irresolvable problem for the indy cause is that it can't be honest without destroying the indy cause.

 

That's not me saying the indy cause can't win, but it is me saying that it'll never win on a sound basis. If it takes a yes vote for its supporters to wake up to themselves those supporters will only have themselves to blame.

[LJS]

Not a reason for independence, but perhaps something to help you guys understand why it doesn't always feel as if we're better together...

http://m.scotsman.com/news/rugby-fan-denied-sale-with-scottish-money-goes-viral-1-3911391