The Dirty Independence Question

[eFestivals]

So entirely fact free speculation by the sounds of it, wouldn't you say, old bean?

It's claimed to be from an unnamed SNP MP.

It's of at least as much substance to every unattributed line you hang your hat on. Like Dave's pig-fucki8ng just yesterday.

 

Will the SNP go into another Indyref without a plan? 

 

Will the SNP publish their plan before the start of the Indyref campaign?

 

Will Neil rubbish the plan whatever is says?

 

I'm happy to wait. It's the "once in a generation" gang that are so impatient.

given that it's 100% clear - from her own words last week - that Sturgeon has no plan and cannot see one appearing, get ready for a long wait.

Why have the SNP banned talk of an indyref at their conference, LJS? Because they're confident about it or because they're not?

 

So I see. Just imagine if these warnings proved to be wrong. Just imagine the EU decided it was in its interests to allow an Independent Catalonia & its people to remain in the EU. Just imagine people said - "hey these guys have been in the EU for years - what is the benefit to anyone in excluding them?" Just imagine the effect the effect on public opinion in Scotland when they saw a central plank of the no campaign blown out of the water.  (do me a favour,don't start wittering on about Lisbon, treaties blah blah blah. Treateies are being ignored all over the EU as we speak.) 

Because they don't meet EU entry critieria, despite having been in the EU for years.

 

Are the treaties meaningless? Or are they there to protect the members from each other?

 

You do realise that Scotland doesn't meet the entry criteria, don't you?

 

 

Not me mate, even your inability to recognise a joke is not grounds for war. 

 

... and your own inability to recognise a joke.....? PMSL.

[eFestivals]

Ok let me get this right. 

 

According to you guys we will be £10bn /£12bn/£15bn a year in deficit. We will need to slash spending in a way that will make the Tories look like Mother Theresa, The oil in my kitchen is worth more than that in the north sea, we have no viable currency option& we will be kicked out of the EU. 

 

Yup, we've got everything going for us right now. 

 

Make your mind up guys. You can choose one of the following options:

 

1: iScotland is a basket case

 

2:iScotland has everything going for it.

 

Your really can't have both.

 

Scotland is not a basketcase. Scotland is as economically vibrant as the UK average.

 

Scotland's fucked-ness as an independent entity comes from its high spending, not its poor economy.

 

That fucked-ness equals around £10Bn a year currently, and rising (because of the oil price crash and the growing extraction costs in Scotland).

 

Scotland if fucked towards indie because the workable realworld answers to the big questions of currency, deficit and the EU are not answers which are acceptable to a majority of the Scottish population,

 

Politically, things are perfectly aligned for the SNP to win indy if they're ever going to win indy: a hated tory govt and a collapse in the Labour vote.

 

Simples, even for a meercat, but too difficult for your average snipper it seems.

[LJS]

 

THE council tax freeze is not underfunded and claims that the Scottish Government does not offer a fair deal to local authorities are not borne out by statistics, Scottish Parliament researchers have found.

The Scottish Government faces frequent criticism from opposition parties, councils and unions over the money it hands to local authorities, with claims of increasing centralisation and a failure to properly compensate councils for the SNP’s flagship pledge to keep council tax frozen.

However, the Scottish Parliament Research Centre (Spice) found the council tax freeze is actually “overfunded”.

 

https://archive.is/Lii6g#selection-2245.0-2245.52

[eFestivals]

 

THE council tax freeze is not underfunded and claims that the Scottish Government does not offer a fair deal to local authorities are not borne out by statistics, Scottish Parliament researchers have found.

The Scottish Government faces frequent criticism from opposition parties, councils and unions over the money it hands to local authorities, with claims of increasing centralisation and a failure to properly compensate councils for the SNP’s flagship pledge to keep council tax frozen.

However, the Scottish Parliament Research Centre (Spice) found the council tax freeze is actually “overfunded”.

 

https://archive.is/Lii6g#selection-2245.0-2245.52

 

 

If that's true, why have the debts of councils around doubled, from something around £2k per person to around £4k per person?

 

I believe it's the case that the same is not being seen to happen in England.

[gary1979666]

Do you think we'll see a change to parlaimentary timings come conference season next year?  Is a tad odd that there's a break for the LD conference yet not for SNP MP's.

[eFestivals]

Do you think we'll see a change to parlaimentary timings come conference season next year?  Is a tad odd that there's a break for the LD conference yet not for SNP MP's.

 

I'm sure the SNP would rather things stay as they are.

 

After all, they need the occasional bit of real stuff for their 'Westminster hates Scotland' myth,

Edited September 25, 2015 by eFestivals

[LJS]

I seem to remember Neil wondering whether Mhairi Black would be joining the Labour Party in the light of Corbyn's victory.

I guess she must follow this thread because she has answered Neil's question. I thought you might like to read her answer.

P.s. I don't necessarily agree with all of it & I think we are all aware of the bits that Neil will disagree with.

(just saving you the effort of another tiresome lecture about democracy, Neil)

 http://www.thenational.scot/comment/mhairi-black-the-election-of-corbyn-changes-nothing.8035

Edited September 27, 2015 by LJS

[russycarps]

I wonder what textbook she read to get those opinions on labour from.

[LJS]

I wonder what textbook she read to get those opinions on labour from.

Yeah, clearly impossible for a snipper to be capable of working out their opinions for themselves.

[eFestivals]

I seem to remember Neil wondering whether Mhairi Black would be joining the Labour Party in the light of Corbyn's victory.

I guess she must follow this thread because she has answered Neil's question. I thought you might like to read her answer.

P.s. I don't necessarily agree with all of it & I think we are all aware of the bits that Neil will disagree with.

(just saving you the effort of another tiresome lecture about democracy, Neil)

http://www.thenational.scot/comment/mhairi-black-the-election-of-corbyn-changes-nothing.8035

So what she's saying is that she's got a whole new list of conditions that need to be fulfilled.

I'm not surprised. If they were fulfilled she'd come up with some more, because its not about Labour its about where Mhari has moved to. Nationalism.

The very opposite of the internationalism behind the labour movement.

[LJS]

So what she's saying is that she's got a whole new list of conditions that need to be fulfilled.

I'm not surprised. If they were fulfilled she'd come up with some more, because its not about Labour its about where Mhari has moved to. Nationalism.

The very opposite of the internationalism behind the labour movement.

 

I'm all for a bit of Internationalism me. I'd certainly want an iScotland to play a full & constructive role in the international community.

 

Tell me about Labour's recent history on internationalism. 

 

Is it the three i's?

 

Internationalism

Iraq

Immigration mugs?

[eFestivals]

There's the parochialism of withdrawing to a smaller space and concentrating on adding differences and barriers, or there's embracing the future which is shared.

Remember how the white paper rejected many EU rules? Get back to me when the SNP accept the EUs core principles.

[eFestivals]

Yeah, clearly impossible for a snipper to be capable of working out their opinions for themselves.

That's definitely possible.

Referencing the facts when forming those opinions is sometimes lacking tho.

Where's that £10+bn, again?

[eFestivals]

There's the Catalonia vote today.

If it 'votes to leave' Spain, it'll be interesting to see the EUs reaction.

It's quite possible that when the UK's vote comes around, the snipper vote will be solidly for out.

Funny old world, often short on thinking.

[LJS]

There's the Catalonia vote today.

If it 'votes to leave' Spain, it'll be interesting to see the EUs reaction.

It's quite possible that when the UK's vote comes around, the snipper vote will be solidly for out.

Funny old world, often short on thinking.

 

[eFestivals]

That's how things were, not necessarily how they'll be. If Corbyn is going to change the narrative why can't other events?

You yourself have said the EU is raping Greece. If it says no to Catalonia's wants - and its perfectly entitled to don't forget - then plenty of snippers will take a view on that towards Scotland, and so for post Indy Scotland to be the stuff of dreams the destructive views of the EU will need to be rejected.

It could easily play out that way (and I hope it doesn't).

[LJS]

That's how things were, not necessarily how they'll be. If Corbyn is going to change the narrative why can't other events?

You yourself have said the EU is raping Greece. If it says no to Catalonia's wants - and its perfectly entitled to don't forget - then plenty of snippers will take a view on that towards Scotland, and so for post Indy Scotland to be the stuff of dreams the destructive views of the EU will need to be rejected.

It could easily play out that way (and I hope it doesn't).

 

Be a bit of a turnaround though, eh?

 

I'll vote yes.

[Comfy Bean]

I wonder what textbook she read to get those opinions on labour from.

 

Is it because she`s young you don`t think she has opinions or because her last job was in a chip shop ?

 

 

[Comfy Bean]

Where's that £10bn ?

 

 

Typo ?

[Comfy Bean]

The very opposite of the internationalism behind the labour movement.

 

 

I`m glad your happy with the " recent " history and internationalism of the labour movement. Last I heard Scotland was looking forward to playing it`s part in Europe and beyond. Perhaps with less of the world police role we are attached to at the moment.

 

On a sunny afternoon in June I thought these guys put it pretty well. From around 7mins if their tunes are not your thing. One of the highlights of the summer for me 

 

 

[russycarps]

Is it because she`s young you don`t think she has opinions or because her last job was in a chip shop ?

https://yout.be/P2KFn7xNe4Y

Is it because she's young or a female that you patronise her so frequently?

[Comfy Bean]

Neither :-)

Nice try at a defence though. I like the way she goes about her business. It's got nowt to do with her age or sex though. Her and I seem to agree on lots of things.

You've had a go at her a few times. Just wondered why that is?

Fair enough if you disagree with her politics?

If you do, why not just say so.

[Comfy Bean]

I wonder what textbook she read to get those opinions on labour from.

 

 

Is it because she's young or a female that you patronise her so frequently?

 

 

[Comfy Bean]

I wonder what textbook she read to get those opinions on labour from.

 

 

I'd rather be lectured to by someone who actually lived through the Blair years than from someone quoting soundbites from a text book who spent the years shitting in a nappy and playing kiss chase.

A childish tantrum from a child. The snp way.

 

 

So textbook or text book, that is the question 

[eFestivals]

Last I heard Scotland was looking forward to playing it`s part in Europe and beyond.

You seem to have mis-read the white paper.

While it said "we love the EU", the detail was a rejection of the EU. It demanding that the EU give up its core principles, to be remodelled on a purely Scottish basis.

The rejection of EU principles included-

1. the rejection of free movement of people.

2. the allowance of racist policies.

3. the rejection of EU economic principles.

4. the rejection of EU fiscal principles.

5. the rejection of EU entry requirements

6. the rejection of the legal basis of international treaties.

7. the rejection of the democratic principles of the Vienna Convention.

8. the rejection of the sovereignty of 29 European states in favour of Scotland ruling them all.

There were many more, too. Those are just the ones I remember.

Such good Europeans.

Edited September 28, 2015 by eFestivals