UK Politics

[pink_triangle]

2 hours ago, steviewevie said:

Well ok...but also don't think the SNP are going to let this go so not sure how long Hoyle can carry on if one party has lost confidence in him.

SNP want to be able to write on their leaflets that the English parliament is rigged against them. I honestly don’t believe they have the power to get rid of a speaker.

[Ommadawn]

1 hour ago, Neil said:

don't think I've ever called anyone a climate change denier, and only called the destroyers Tories.i used to get accused of banning anyone who disagreed with me, but did a bad job of that by who is still around. 😛 

It wasn't you I was referring to Neil.
Your purges were the stuff of legend. They were spoken about in hushed tones on TOS if I remember correctly.

[Neil]

55 minutes ago, LJS said:

Thanks for your opinion, Neil.

Can't remember if I said that or not, but it's not totally implausible. 

If I did say it, I was wrong. 

The desire for indy is unstoppable!

 

5 minutes ago, Ommadawn said:

It wasn't you I was referring to Neil.
Your purges were the stuff of legend. They were spoken about in hushed tones on TOS if I remember correctly.

These forums were tightly managed and it made a difference it's why tos isn't around anymore. It slipped away  here when I was in hospital and couldn't put the time into it.

Edited February 26 by Neil

[Ozanne]

21 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

SNP want to be able to write on their leaflets that the English parliament is rigged against them. I honestly don’t believe they have the power to get rid of a speaker.

They don't have any power to do that and it doesn't look like anywhere near a majority of MPs want the Speaker replaced. 

[LJS]

37 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

SNP want to be able to write on their leaflets that the English parliament is rigged against them. 

Kind of the "English" parliament to oblige.

[steviewevie]

7 hours ago, pink_triangle said:

SNP want to be able to write on their leaflets that the English parliament is rigged against them. I honestly don’t believe they have the power to get rid of a speaker.

they don't have the power to get rid of him, but can he carry on when one the parties, the 3rd opposition want him gone...are they always going to be bringing this up and undermining him? I don't know, maybe he will stay and ride it out, just can't see it.

[Ozanne]

I could be wrong but I think only the government can raise a confidence motion in the Speaker, so if/as the government don’t seem to want to get rid of him then I don’t see it happening. 

[steviewevie]

9 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I could be wrong but I think only the government can raise a confidence motion in the Speaker, so if/as the government don’t seem to want to get rid of him then I don’t see it happening. 

yeah, but he might just quit.

[pink_triangle]

41 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

they don't have the power to get rid of him, but can he carry on when one the parties, the 3rd opposition want him gone...are they always going to be bringing this up and undermining him? I don't know, maybe he will stay and ride it out, just can't see it.

I think if the government and opposition are happy for him to stay in position, he stays in position. I doubt the SNP politicians are really that bothered, they just want something to scream about at home.

[pink_triangle]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

yeah, but he might just quit.

I think your overestimating the influence of the SNP.

[pink_triangle]

7 hours ago, LJS said:

Kind of the "English" parliament to oblige.

Maybe if the SNP prioritised being productive instead of setting traps for labour the situation could have been avoided, but knowing what sells at home they chose to play politics.

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I think your overestimating the influence of the SNP.

well they had their own opposition day, so they aren't nothing...and Hoyle is supposed to represent all members. Anyway, vote for him to go as reached 80 now so it isn't just SNP MPs.

[pink_triangle]

4 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

well they had their own opposition day, so they aren't nothing...and Hoyle is supposed to represent all members. Anyway, vote for him to go as reached 80 now so it isn't just SNP MPs.

From memory no government ministers and no MPs from the opposition. If it stays this way Hoyle will be fine. I don’t think a coalition with SNP working with right wing Tory’s will be enough.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, pink_triangle said:

From memory no government ministers and no MPs from the opposition. If it stays this way Hoyle will be fine. I don’t think a coalition with SNP working with right wing Tory’s will be enough.

ok...but when he is supposed to be representing all members, not in opposition to them...and 80 of them want him gone.

And if you step back and look at what happened...SNP had their opposition day, they only get 3 a year...which yes you could accuse them of playing party politics with the Gaza situation, but also it is an important global issue that resonates here, and it is their right to do what they want with this opposition day whether it's point scoring or not...and then Hoyle who was a Labour MP, allowed the Labour amendment so basically making it Labour's opposition day.

Now this was apparently because he wanted to give all sides a go for such an important issue which is nonsense really...but also he was concerned for MPs safety which isn't nonsense but does give in to those who are posing threats, and maybe just makes things worse? Or he wanted to save Starmer a big problem with loads of his MPs voting for the SNP motion.

So, he apologised, and told SNP he would give them their debate/vote on Gaza....and then suddenly said actually he wouldn't. It is kind of wtf.

[steviewevie]

Anyway, going to be a ceasefire on Monday...probably down to that Labour ceasefire motion passing.

[steviewevie]

IFS tells Hunt stop being silly with tax cuts...

 

[Neil]

52 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

From memory no government ministers and no MPs from the opposition. If it stays this way Hoyle will be fine. I don’t think a coalition with SNP working with right wing Tory’s will be enough.

Snp working with the Tories that's never happened before.

[pink_triangle]

48 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

ok...but when he is supposed to be representing all members, not in opposition to them...and 80 of them want him gone.

And if you step back and look at what happened...SNP had their opposition day, they only get 3 a year...which yes you could accuse them of playing party politics with the Gaza situation, but also it is an important global issue that resonates here, and it is their right to do what they want with this opposition day whether it's point scoring or not...and then Hoyle who was a Labour MP, allowed the Labour amendment so basically making it Labour's opposition day.

Now this was apparently because he wanted to give all sides a go for such an important issue which is nonsense really...but also he was concerned for MPs safety which isn't nonsense but does give in to those who are posing threats, and maybe just makes things worse? Or he wanted to save Starmer a big problem with loads of his MPs voting for the SNP motion.

So, he apologised, and told SNP he would give them their debate/vote on Gaza....and then suddenly said actually he wouldn't. It is kind of wtf.

I know he went eventually, but what was the tipping point for Bercow? Must have been way more than 80.

[fraybentos1]

9 hours ago, Ommadawn said:

It wasn't you I was referring to Neil.
Your purges were the stuff of legend. They were spoken about in hushed tones on TOS if I remember correctly.

what is TOS?

[steviewevie]

24 minutes ago, pink_triangle said:

I know he went eventually, but what was the tipping point for Bercow? Must have been way more than 80.

not sure there was ever a no confidence motion for Bercow, even though plenty wanted him gone throughout his time , but in the end he just stood down when he wanted. But Bercow was a bit of a maverick and a divisive figure, he loved it...but Hoyle was supposed to be different, he would be totally impartial and stick to the rules, and he mostly has but now this. Incidentally  Michael  Martin who was speaker before Bercow quit after just 22 MPs signed a no confidence thingy.

[steviewevie]

they can't say islamophobic,

 

[steviewevie]

[Nobody Interesting]

16 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

they can't say islamophobic,

 

The metric I run such things against is that used for Anti-Sematism.

If Anderson had said the same about an Jewish mayor being controlled by Jewish people then that would be Anti-Sematism and there would have been immediate sackings and nobody at all would back away from saying what it was.

 

So using that same metric to see if he was Islamaphobic, then yes, 100% he was.

Sadly these 'rules' are only used for one bigotry tendancy and not all.

[steviewevie]

14 minutes ago, Nobody Interesting said:

The metric I run such things against is that used for Anti-Sematism.

If Anderson had said the same about an Jewish mayor being controlled by Jewish people then that would be Anti-Sematism and there would have been immediate sackings and nobody at all would back away from saying what it was.

 

So using that same metric to see if he was Islamaphobic, then yes, 100% he was.

Sadly these 'rules' are only used for one bigotry tendancy and not all.

Difference is they use terms Islamist or Zionist as a get out...

[steviewevie]