news & politics:discussion

[mattiloy]

6 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Bit high brow.

And what do you mean by liberals?

Neolib hawks like Sir Trilateral Commission KC

[mattiloy]

Whose Labour Party find themselves again outflanked on the left by the tories.

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Whose Labour Party find themselves again outflanked on the left by the tories.

It kind of is an unrealistic gesture at this point.

[Neil]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

My brother to this day thinks 911 was carried out by Mossad/CIA.

Same as belief in UFOs comes from a need to give an explanation for something not understood.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

Same as belief in UFOs comes from a need to give an explanation for something not understood.

Yeh but UFOs are real.

[mattiloy]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

It kind of is an unrealistic gesture at this point.

Strong disagree. It would be a massive coup. Makes both a ceasefire and eventual palestinian statehood more likely.

[philipsteak]

Just found out a lad I used to work with is the Tory candidate for my constituency. Seemed a nice enough guy (for a Tory) but a bit dim. But I could also imagine him having some fairly awful views. Rural posh boy. 

[Neil]

4 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Yeh but UFOs are real.

I went down the blaze TV  UFO rabbit hole the other day 😲

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Strong disagree. It would be a massive coup. Makes both a ceasefire and eventual palestinian statehood more likely.

If UK declared Palestine a state? Maybe, I don't know..not sure it would actually make f**k all difference..but yes could give it a go. 

[Neil]

4 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Strong disagree. It would be a massive coup. Makes both a ceasefire and eventual palestinian statehood more likely.

What does Palestinian statehood look like?

[Neil]

19 minutes ago, Neil said:

What does Palestinian statehood look like?

an important question that needs a definition if you're asking isreal to accept it as its neighbour.

does it, for example, have an army? or an air force? is it allowed to buy weapons? if it has these things how do we know they won't be used against Israel?

[mattiloy]

44 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

If UK declared Palestine a state? Maybe, I don't know..not sure it would actually make f**k all difference..but yes could give it a go. 

Yes. The UK has withheld recognition of palestine all these years to placate Israel. To change that would be a major shift diplomatically and given the UK’s status as the US’s deputy its quite a big deal for them to turn around and say finally, enough is enough - that Israeli govt no longer has the unwavering support of the UK.

There is a good chance it influences other states positions. Which increases the chance of formal admission to the UN as a member state. States that recognise palestine 👇 

Edited January 30 by mattiloy

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Yes. The UK has withheld recognition of palestine all these years to placate Israel. To change that would be a major shift diplomatically and given the UK’s status as the US’s deputy its quite a big deal for them to turn around and say finally, enough is enough - that Israeli govt no longer has the unwavering support of the UK.

There is a good chance it influences other states positions. Which increases the chance of formal admission to the UN as a member state. States that recognise palestine 👇 

ok, fair enough...maybe it would make a difference...still not sure, Israel seems to be so far ignoring anything anyone says including US. I expect a change of direction for Israel would need to come internally, in the end it is a nuclear power which seems to mean it can do what the f**k it likes. 

Let's see if anything comes from Cameron's suggestion...

[steviewevie]

😃

contradicts what Starmer said recently, but whatever.

[Ozanne]

 

[Neil]

9 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

ok, fair enough...maybe it would make a difference...still not sure, Israel seems to be so far ignoring anything anyone says including US. I expect a change of direction for Israel would need to come internally, in the end it is a nuclear power which seems to mean it can do what the f**k it likes. 

Let's see if anything comes from Cameron's suggestion...

the uk has a unique place in Palestine's past which amplifies it voice to the future.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

the uk has a unique place in Palestine's past which amplifies it voice to the future.

it really does but because of that, and the fact we're just not that important anymore, means I'm not sure we're that highly regarded. Maybe recognising Palestine as a state would help with that.  If you look at the history we were involved with the whole setting up of Israel, but almost kind of reluctantly, Balfour treaty was political with no real substance, then it was just trying to deal with problems with Jewish immigrants and Arabs fighting in that region, actually trying to restrict Jewish immigration whilst at same time blocking them from coming to UK even when all that Nazi sh*t was going on, and then after WW2 not wanting anything to do with the partition but just letting UN sort it out and then getting the f**k out of there and next day the Arab-Israeli war started. UK even abstained on the original UN resolution recognising Israel.

Anyway, this is what Starmer and Lammy said in Jewish Chronicle, dropping Labour policy of recognising Palestinian statehood from day one if they got into power...arguing it should be part of a peace process agreed with other countries...not T-shirt politics 😀

Keir Starmer drops Corbyn-era policy on Palestinian statehood - The Jewish Chronicle (thejc.com)

[Neil]

Cameron's speech wasn't cleared with number ten 

[kaosmark2]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

ok, fair enough...maybe it would make a difference...still not sure, Israel seems to be so far ignoring anything anyone says including US. I expect a change of direction for Israel would need to come internally, in the end it is a nuclear power which seems to mean it can do what the f**k it likes. 

Let's see if anything comes from Cameron's suggestion...

I think you're also missing that the UK is an official Israeli ally and weapons provider. By recognising Palestine as a legitimate independent state it would declare that alliance at risk if Israel continued its current strategy.

It would be a very big deal and I think both our current and future government are too cowardly to do it.

[Neil]

21 minutes ago, kaosmark2 said:

I think you're also missing that the UK is an official Israeli ally and weapons provider. By recognising Palestine as a legitimate independent state it would declare that alliance at risk if Israel continued its current strategy.

It would be a very big deal and I think both our current and future government are too cowardly to do it.

the uk is the proposer for the state of israel via the Balfour Declaration

[Neil]

was just considering would Iran be f**king around if trump was us president?

 

probably not, can't predict his response, Biden can be predicted to shy away from war. trump. who knows?

[steviewevie]

6 hours ago, kaosmark2 said:

I think you're also missing that the UK is an official Israeli ally and weapons provider. By recognising Palestine as a legitimate independent state it would declare that alliance at risk if Israel continued its current strategy.

It would be a very big deal and I think both our current and future government are too cowardly to do it.

yeah, ok. I didn't actually realise pretty much everyone except N America/W Europe/Australia recognised Palestinian statehood. So, yes, it would send a strong signal.

Edited January 31 by steviewevie

[steviewevie]

and then there's this...

they're not going to be able to destroy Hamas, they're just destroying Gaza.

[stuie]

9 hours ago, Neil said:

Cameron's speech wasn't cleared with number ten 

I suppose that’s what you get when you give someone special powers in an underhand way. 

[Neil]

1 hour ago, steviewevie said:

and then there's this...

they're not going to be able to destroy Hamas, they're just destroying Gaza.

so maybe next time Hamas might think rape and murder is not a great idea.