news & politics:discussion

[Neil]

1 minute ago, lost said:

Sounds like Hezbollah/Lebanon are attacking Israel too. This could really escalate here and drag the whole region in.

israel has a claim to half of lebanon, they'll go in there. to grab that land.

[steviewevie]

Am I allowed to condemn Hamas' attacks and support Israel's right to defend itself but also condemn Israel's continued oppression of Palastinians?

[Neil]

Just now, steviewevie said:

Am I allowed to condemn Hamas' attacks and support Israel's right to defend itself but also condemn Israel's continued oppression of Palastinians?

yes, i agree with all of that.

 

 

[doogie]

46 minutes ago, Neil said:

thanks - how do you know that???

I've lived amongst the secular Jewish community all my life, and music and festival culture has always been a big thing, especially amongst the young.

You could be excused for not knowing though, as they generally pass for white and look and behave much the same as anybody else.

Edited October 8, 2023 by doogie

[doogie]

35 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Always thought Glastonbury was full of Gentiles.

Glastonbury is notoriously full of white people, but most Jewish people pass for white, so you wouldn't know unless you know.

[Neil]

26 minutes ago, lost said:

Sounds like Hezbollah/Lebanon are attacking Israel too. This could really escalate here and drag the whole region in.

i don't think theres a region to drag in, syria are out of the game 😛 

[doogie]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Am I allowed to condemn Hamas' attacks and support Israel's right to defend itself but also condemn Israel's continued oppression of Palastinians?

Of course. Many Jewish people would agree with you too.

[lost]

2 minutes ago, Neil said:

i don't think theres a region to drag in, syria are out of the game 😛 

Backed by Russia aren't they? A Yom Kippur style oil price spike would probably really help Putin.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Neil said:

i don't think theres a region to drag in, syria are out of the game 😛 

A lot of countries in the region have tried to normalise relations with Israel recently,not sure what will happen with all that. Syria are no friends with Iran so they might not side with Palestine/Lebanon anyway.

[collectivisedfarming]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Am I allowed to condemn Hamas' attacks and support Israel's right to defend itself but also condemn Israel's continued oppression of Palastinians?

Israel has a right to proportionate defence, I've never seen anyone deny that whilst I have seen plenty of people deny the Palestinian right to resistance (even when it is non-violent as with BDS).

Hamas are obviously bad. I'm fed up with being demanded in the discourse to condemn Hamas to be honest. I'd just take it as read that most reasonable people do not support Hamas.

[Neil]

6 minutes ago, lost said:

Backed by Russia aren't they? A Yom Kippur style oil price spike would probably really help Putin.

backed by Russia, but Russia isn't going to get involved. oil price spike 1973-stylee needs the USA to get involved.

[Ozanne]

1 hour ago, Crazyfool01 said:

No they won’t because they are more Tory than they’ve been previously . However had a watch of him and he did look like the next pm . So will have to see . He’s much further right than I’d like but we will all have levels of what’s acceptable . Just like there’s bits of other party policy I like and don’t like . If I setup a poll asking if Labour had moved further to the right in the last parliament I’m pretty sure I could predict the answer , because they have 

Bit odd to complain about them being further right than you'd like yet you vote Lib Dem and never complain about their policies at all. Very interesting...

[Neil]

2 minutes ago, collectivisedfarming said:

Israel has a right to proportionate defence, I've never seen anyone deny that whilst I have seen plenty of people deny the Palestinian right to resistance (even when it is non-violent as with BDS).

Hamas are obviously bad. I'm fed up with being demanded in the discourse to condemn Hamas to be honest. I'd just take it as read that most reasonable people do not support Hamas.

for some people hamas are 'friends'. 😛 

[Neil]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

if Labour had moved further to the right in the last parliament I’m pretty sure I could predict the answer , because they have 

while i wouldn't argue against that, its less about choice and more about being engaged with the current political realities (tories moved to the right and dragged the centre rightwards).

[Ozanne]

2 minutes ago, collectivisedfarming said:

Israel has a right to proportionate defence, I've never seen anyone deny that whilst I have seen plenty of people deny the Palestinian right to resistance (even when it is non-violent as with BDS).

Hamas are obviously bad. I'm fed up with being demanded in the discourse to condemn Hamas to be honest. I'd just take it as read that most reasonable people do not support Hamas.

I think Israel have a right to defend themselves after the attacks yesterday but I am sympathetic to the Palestinians plight in general. The tactics used by Hamas yesterday are barbaric and should rightly be condemned.

[Neil]

16 minutes ago, doogie said:

Glastonbury is notoriously full of white people, but most Jewish people pass for white, so you wouldn't know unless you know.

you made a claim of over-representation, and i asked how you knew that? or did you bullshit??????

[collectivisedfarming]

4 minutes ago, Neil said:

for some people hamas are 'friends'. 😛 

Yes, I think that was an unbelievably ill judged thing to say. 

[Ozanne]

Just now, Neil said:

while i wouldn't argue against that, its less about choice and more about being engaged with the current political realities (tories moved to the right and dragged the centre rightwards).

It's not exactly the zinger CF thinks it is, the last 2 Labour manifestos were some of the most left wing ones in recent times but were roundly rejected by the electorate so of course Labour will move to the right of them. Starmer understands that to win elections you need to flirt with the centre, it's something people should understand by now really.

[Neil]

Just now, collectivisedfarming said:

Yes, I think that was an unbelievably ill judged thing to say. 

big display of ignorance on a subject he claims to know about.

[Neil]

Just now, Ozanne said:

It's not exactly the zinger CF thinks it is, the last 2 Labour manifestos were some of the most left wing ones in recent times but were roundly rejected by the electorate so of course Labour will move to the right of them. Starmer understands that to win elections you need to flirt with the centre, it's something people should understand by now really.

its most about not scaring people by making them think you'll mess with their life.

[Crazyfool01]

4 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Bit odd to complain about them being further right than you'd like yet you vote Lib Dem and never complain about their policies at all. Very interesting...

I’ve suggested plenty of times that the Lib Dem’s aren’t perfect . Just to recap I hated the Lib Dem’s for the change to tuition fees . All party’s have faults it’s just picking one that has overall best alignment with views .. actually I’ll repeat again that would naturally be the Green Party for me . But they don’t stand a chance of election here so next best is Lib Dem’s who do 

[Crazyfool01]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

It's not exactly the zinger CF thinks it is, the last 2 Labour manifestos were some of the most left wing ones in recent times but were roundly rejected by the electorate so of course Labour will move to the right of them. Starmer understands that to win elections you need to flirt with the centre, it's something people should understand by now really.

You’ve agreed with exactly what I said . Whilst saying further up that Labour haven’t shifted right 

[Ozanne]

4 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

You’ve agreed with exactly what I said . Whilst saying further up that Labour haven’t shifted right 

Where did I say that Labour haven't shifted right?

6 minutes ago, Crazyfool01 said:

I’ve suggested plenty of times that the Lib Dem’s aren’t perfect . Just to recap I hated the Lib Dem’s for the change to tuition fees . All party’s have faults it’s just picking one that has overall best alignment with views .. actually I’ll repeat again that would naturally be the Green Party for me . But they don’t stand a chance of election here so next best is Lib Dem’s who do 

LDs are to the right of Labour, yet for the LDs it's 'all party's have faults'. Yet with Labour it's paragraphs on why they are like the Tories, which is just interesting and also not correct at all.

[fraybentos1]

8 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Where did I say that Labour haven't shifted right?

LDs are to the right of Labour, yet for the LDs it's 'all party's have faults'. Yet with Labour it's paragraphs on why they are like the Tories, which is just interesting and also not correct at all.

If you engage your brain for half a second it’s pretty obvious what @Crazyfool01’s view point is. 
 

He seems to be left wing, he will vote LD to keep the tories out. However, the Lib Dems  have no chance of forming a government so their policies probs require less scrutiny for him as he’s doing it purely as an anti Tory vote (quite sensibly in my view). Labour are going to form the next government and therefore their policies merit more scrutiny. Pretty simple. Hope this helps you understand!

[Crazyfool01]

Must never question the likely new govt what a terrible thing to do ….  Hang my head in shame and must pledge my aleigance to every policy Labour has . Whilst helping them get elected by helping Lib Dem’s in my area .