Kasabian//Tom Meighan

[eFestivals]

12 hours ago, Copperface said:

 

On average high-risk victims live with domestic abuse for 2.3 years and medium risk victims for 3 years before getting help.

On average victims experience 50 incidents of abuse before getting effective help

On average most people sent to prison have no need to be sent to prison, violent offender or not.

 

12 hours ago, Copperface said:

Unlikely to be a one off.

We operate an evidence-based justice system, not an averages-based system.

What @Hugh Jass said above.

[Copperface]

37 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

On average most people sent to prison have no need to be sent to prison, violent offender or not.

 

We operate an evidence-based justice system, not an averages-based system.

What @Hugh Jass said above.

No idea what the first has to do with domestic violence research figures. DV can also be non physically violent in the form of coercive control so the violence aspect is neither here nor there.

We also operate an adversarial justice system where maybe an inquisitorial system might be better, especially in cases where possible victims are reluctant to engage fully. . A personal assessment is just that. I'm not a court.

[eFestivals]

22 minutes ago, Copperface said:

No idea what the first has to do with domestic violence research figures.

if you can throw an average at an individual to suggest he should be in jail, I can throw an average at the whole prison system to show that he shouldn't.  

I have no idea what the average has to do with the rights and/or wrongs of an individual case.  

 

Quote

DV can also be non physically violent in the form of coercive control so the violence aspect is neither here nor there.

We also operate an adversarial justice system where maybe an inquisitorial system might be better, especially in cases where possible victims are reluctant to engage fully. . A personal assessment is just that. I'm not a court.

seemed like you were judging him all the same.  

Edited December 10, 2020 by eFestivals

[Copperface]

8 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

if you can throw an average at an individual to suggest he should be in jail, I can throw an average at the whole prison system to show that he shouldn't.  

I have no idea what the average has to do with the rights and/or wrongs of an individual case.  

 

seemed like you were judging him all the same.  

I am. He's a right twat. 

If he wants to make music, that's up to him. Shouldn't expect people just to forget the past though and have their own thoughts on the matter..

[eFestivals]

11 minutes ago, Copperface said:

I am. He's a right twat. 

he may or may not be a right twat, that wasn't my point.

You were throwing the averages against him, like they were meaningful for his particular case. They're not.

 

Quote

If he wants to make music, that's up to him. Shouldn't expect people just to forget the past though and have their own thoughts on the matter..

No one is saying the past should be forgotten.

Some are suggesting he shouldn't be judged on self-invented made-up bollocks to suit that person's prejudices.

Edited December 10, 2020 by eFestivals

[Hugh Jass]

14 minutes ago, Copperface said:

I am. He's a right twat. 

If he wants to make music, that's up to him. Shouldn't expect people just to forget the past though and have their own thoughts on the matter..

Some people will forget the past, some won’t, it’s entirely up to them. People have been convicted of similar or worse crimes and still had successful careers.

Personally I don’t envisage myself taking much of an interest in anything he releases but he came from a hugely successful band so there’s bound to be some interest.

[Copperface]

8 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

 

You were throwing the averages against him, like they were meaningful for his particular case. They're not.

 

 

Those figures are relevant in the context of the offences for which he was prosecuted. 

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, Copperface said:

Those figures are relevant in the context of the offences for which he was prosecuted. 

yep, but not relevant to his case.

It's a discussion if you want to have it, but not one that should be thrown against any individual case as you did. An individual case is based on the evidence in that case, and not on what other people might have done.

Otherwise, if you carry on like that, I'll have you agreeing with all coppers are bastards.  

[DeanoL]

 

59 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

No one is saying the past should be forgotten.

Some are suggesting he shouldn't be judged on self-invented made-up bollocks to suit that person's prejudices.

He's not being judged by the justice system though anymore. That's been done, and don't think anyone is actually saying he should be in prison. (I had pointed out he hadn't gone to prison, but that was specifically in references to someone saying he "paid a high price" - I would have seen prison as a high price, but I wasn't meaning to comment on if it was an appropriate punishment or not).

But now he's trying to return to public life he's being judged by the court of public opinion, just as he was before, and that's broadly self-invented made-up bollocks for all of us. It's completely subjective, just like it was completely subjective if you liked the music of Kasabian to start with.

[henry bear]

Phil Rudd seems to be a ‘colourful character’, but I haven’t seen any criticism that he’s back playing drums for AC/DC

[eFestivals]

48 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

But now he's trying to return to public life he's being judged by the court of public opinion, just as he was before, and that's broadly self-invented made-up bollocks for all of us. It's completely subjective, just like it was completely subjective if you liked the music of Kasabian to start with.

I realise he's being judged in the court of public opinion.

I'm pointing out that the public's opinion is the normal let-prejudices-run-wild and ignore-the-evidence.

Me, I think I can do better than that. I'd like to think that people here can do better than that.

You're perfectly entitled to think he's a c**t for beating his partner.  It gets ridiculous when people start inventing extra beatings just because they can and thinking him even more of a c**t.