When will this shit end?

[ryan1992]

1 minute ago, JoeyT said:

Also a country where a recent poll with 28k votes concluded that 34% of those who voted think masks should be worn when running outside.

We really do live in strange times.

Yes madness. I saw an overweight person moaning about someone not wearing a mask in the supermarket the other day. They seemed so concerned about their health I was tempted to follow them around the supermarket removing all the junk food and high sugar items from their trolley!

[Fuzzy Afro]

7 minutes ago, ryan1992 said:

Yes madness. I saw an overweight person moaning about someone not wearing a mask in the supermarket the other day. They seemed so concerned about their health I was tempted to follow them around the supermarket removing all the junk food and high sugar items from their trolley!

Another reason why just blaming the death toll on the government is lazy 

[BobWillis2]

10 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Another reason why just blaming the death toll on the government is lazy 

It’s also lazy to blame overweight people. You often see stats like “two thirds of icu patients are overweight” you’d expect that in a country with two thirds of the population being overweight wouldn’t you? Doesn’t mean being overweight was a major factor, otherwise the percentage would be higher. 

[Guest]

 

[Fuzzy Afro]

10 minutes ago, BobWillis2 said:

It’s also lazy to blame overweight people. You often see stats like “two thirds of icu patients are overweight” you’d expect that in a country with two thirds of the population being overweight wouldn’t you? Doesn’t mean being overweight was a major factor, otherwise the percentage would be higher. 

Well yeah, it’s a very nuanced issue. But countries like Spain, France and Italy have likely had similar or higher overall infection rates to the UK (when you adjust for how much we test) but much lower numbers of deaths, so something doesn’t quite add up. The government can use restrictions to impact the overall number of people infected, what it can’t really do is stop people dying once they catch the virus.
 

The only two feasible explanations for our abhorrently high death rate are either that we are not optimally treating patients (which did happen in the first wave, as we used way too many ventilators which were later found to be less useful than CPAP, but this happened all across Europe so doesn’t really explain away the issue) or that our population is relatively unhealthy compared to other European countries. The latter would seem to be the major issue. 

[ryan1992]

25 minutes ago, BobWillis2 said:

It’s also lazy to blame overweight people. You often see stats like “two thirds of icu patients are overweight” you’d expect that in a country with two thirds of the population being overweight wouldn’t you? Doesn’t mean being overweight was a major factor, otherwise the percentage would be higher. 

"The report, released ahead of world obesity day on Thursday, did not find a single example of a country where less than 40 per cent of the population was overweight having high death rates. On the other hand, no country with high death rates — at least 100 per 100,000 — had less than 50 per cent of its population overweight."

The evidence seems pretty conclusive to me in that report. Sooner or later the UK population has to recognise its obesity problem (third fattest in Europe) has contributed to its high death toll. And people need to take more responsibility for their health in general. 78,000 people a year in this country die of smoking - maybe not as much as covid, but that's still a massive amount of people. Yes, it's their choice to smoke, but it still puts lots of pressure on the NHS. Again, seems crazy we live in a country where that is legal but going to a gym isn't.

Edited March 5, 2021 by ryan1992

[Fuzzy Afro]

9 minutes ago, ryan1992 said:

"The report, released ahead of world obesity day on Thursday, did not find a single example of a country where less than 40 per cent of the population was overweight having high death rates. On the other hand, no country with high death rates — at least 100 per 100,000 — had less than 50 per cent of its population overweight."

The evidence seems pretty conclusive to me in that report. Sooner or later the UK population has to recognise its obesity problem (third fattest in Europe) has contributed to its high death toll. And people need to take more responsibility for their health in general. 78,000 people a year in this country die of smoking - all deaths that could be prevented from making it illegal. But no, instead it's illegal to go to the gym.

As an absolute start we need to start including the calorific value of an entire pack of something, not just the recommended portion size.

 

It might actually detract people from devouring an entire family size bag of malteasers in one go if the pack showed that it contained more calories than your entire lunch, rather than showing you the calorific value of the recommended portion size of about 8 sweets (which no one ever eats)

[ryan1992]

2 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

As an absolute start we need to start including the calorific value of an entire pack of something, not just the recommended portion size.

 

It might actually detract people from devouring an entire family size bag of malteasers in one go if the pack showed that it contained more calories than your entire lunch, rather than showing you the calorific value of the recommended portion size of about 8 sweets (which no one ever eats)

yeah that is very true. The 'portion sizes' are always small and unrealistic which usually hides the fact that most people will eat more that what those percentages show. I do think the majority of people don't even look at those anyway. 

[BobWillis2]

35 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Well yeah, it’s a very nuanced issue. But countries like Spain, France and Italy have likely had similar or higher overall infection rates to the UK (when you adjust for how much we test) but much lower numbers of deaths, so something doesn’t quite add up. 
 

Well we record any death within 28 days of a positive test result for starters. Doesn’t mean they all died of covid. 

[Fuzzy Afro]

5 minutes ago, BobWillis2 said:

Well we record any death within 28 days of a positive test result for starters. Doesn’t mean they all died of covid. 

The measure is the most accurate thing we have. Small but offsetting numbers will either:

 

A: Test positive for covid and then go on to die of a completely independent thing within the next 28 days (Existing cancer etc, hit by a bus, whatever)

 

B: Test positive for covid and become seriously unwell, soldier on for a month and then succumb to it after the 28 day period 

[zero000]

35 minutes ago, ryan1992 said:

"The report, released ahead of world obesity day on Thursday, did not find a single example of a country where less than 40 per cent of the population was overweight having high death rates. On the other hand, no country with high death rates — at least 100 per 100,000 — had less than 50 per cent of its population overweight."

The evidence seems pretty conclusive to me in that report. Sooner or later the UK population has to recognise its obesity problem (third fattest in Europe) has contributed to its high death toll. And people need to take more responsibility for their health in general. 78,000 people a year in this country die of smoking - maybe not as much as covid, but that's still a massive amount of people. Yes, it's their choice to smoke, but it still puts lots of pressure on the NHS. Again, seems crazy we live in a country where that is legal but going to a gym isn't.

It's important to say that this is a correlation and is therefore not necessary causal. Countries where there are higher rates of obesity, may also have older populations for example, or there may be conditions associated with obesity which confer excess risk of death like hypertension or diabetes. I'm not saying weight isn't important, but it's one of many factors which increase the risk.

[steviewevie]

43 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Well yeah, it’s a very nuanced issue. But countries like Spain, France and Italy have likely had similar or higher overall infection rates to the UK (when you adjust for how much we test) but much lower numbers of deaths, so something doesn’t quite add up. The government can use restrictions to impact the overall number of people infected, what it can’t really do is stop people dying once they catch the virus.
 

The only two feasible explanations for our abhorrently high death rate are either that we are not optimally treating patients (which did happen in the first wave, as we used way too many ventilators which were later found to be less useful than CPAP, but this happened all across Europe so doesn’t really explain away the issue) or that our population is relatively unhealthy compared to other European countries. The latter would seem to be the major issue. 

We had higher cases than Spain/France/Italy over the winter.

[Fuzzy Afro]

Just now, steviewevie said:

We had higher cases than Spain/France/Italy over the winter.

Because we test significantly more. When you normalise for testing it’s about the same 

[steviewevie]

FOMO

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/05/fear-of-missing-out-boosting-global-acceptance-of-covid-jab

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Because we test significantly more. When you normalise for testing it’s about the same 

or we have more people with symptoms?

[xxialac]

Primavera Sound are holding a no-social-distancing indoor concert with 5,000 people....this month

[Fuzzy Afro]

8 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

or we have more people with symptoms?

Test positivity ratios would suggest that you are talking shite 

[Fuzzy Afro]

4 minutes ago, xxialac said:

Primavera Sound are holding a no-social-distancing indoor concert with 5,000 people....this month

In Spain? 

[xxialac]

1 minute ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

In Spain? 

Yeah, in Barcelona. Will be testing people before and after to see how many infections (if any).

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Test positivity ratios would suggest that you are talking shite 

says someone often talking shite.

[thewayiam]

20 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

We had higher cases than Spain/France/Italy over the winter.

Spain have upped a lot recently. Italy isn't good either.

10 minutes ago, xxialac said:

Primavera Sound are holding a no-social-distancing indoor concert with 5,000 people....this month

That's just stupid.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, thewayiam said:

Spain have upped a lot recently. Italy isn't good either.

yeah, probably that kent variant spreading across europe...they really need to get jabbing...

[JoeyT]

 

[xxialac]

19 minutes ago, thewayiam said:

Spain have upped a lot recently. Italy isn't good either.

That's just stupid.

Perhaps find out more before you judge. They are running the concert with many controls.

And Spain cases have fallen dramatically recently, slightly more rapid than UK even.

Edited March 5, 2021 by xxialac

[xxialac]

Spain back to November levels...