jaredean Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Ohjesus said: But it literally doesn’t matter! The June flights are essentially useless. The question was “would you move them now?” of course I would. They’re dead to me. If there was a way I could magically make them transfer to August and then the fest was on that weekend, I’m a winner. if the fest is any other date at all, I still have to buy new flights. but in light of the most recent comments, it’s better to hope for flight cancellations and refunds. then you don't understand what i'm saying. If you can magically make them transfer then waiting to hear about a solid date means you can magically make them transfer to a real date instead of a guesswork date. just trying to give you the biggest chance of success... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohjesus Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 Just now, jaredean said: then you don't understand what i'm saying. If you can magically make them transfer then waiting to hear about a solid date means you can magically make them transfer to a real date instead of a guesswork date. just trying to give you the biggest chance of success... Mate you’ve totally lost me. I’m out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaredean Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 7 minutes ago, Ohjesus said: Mate you’ve totally lost me. I’m out. sorry, was just trying to help...peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaredean Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 update from Porto has more information than we've had to this point... https://www.publico.pt/2020/03/18/culturaipsilon/noticia/primavera-sound-dificuldade-possibilidade-festival-realizar-junho-1908311 (google translation of part) Quote “The two festivals are in the same boat, because the artists come for both. We are avoiding as much as possible canceling, working on alternatives that may be postponed. We are trying to get the American art community and its agents to see this as a situation of force majeure, allowing for cancellation or postponement. These are the solutions we are working on. ” Arranging dates in September and October, however, has proven to be difficult, as many events are going through the same difficulties and these months are starting to get overwhelmed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whos3000 Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 1 hour ago, jaredean said: update from Porto has more information than we've had to this point... https://www.publico.pt/2020/03/18/culturaipsilon/noticia/primavera-sound-dificuldade-possibilidade-festival-realizar-junho-1908311 (google translation of part) to me sounds like they would cancel as soon as they can 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwallowOrSleepOnTheWetSpot Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 https://www.roskilde-festival.dk/en/years/2020/news/festivals-stand-united/ Primavera is included in here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puckno Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 Both Roskilde and Primavera know that is not gonna happen, but at the same time cannot get out of their contractual obligations and unite in order to put pressure on those obligations and/or create an understanding in the public why they are not cancelling until their respetive governments cancel for them. So to me it now seem more likely with a cancellation but maybe after a months wait 'for all the good reasons' before the government cancel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohjesus Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 Primavera is getting less and less important to me. Never thought I’d say that but there it is. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxialac Posted March 20, 2020 Report Share Posted March 20, 2020 https://www.roskilde-festival.dk/en/years/2020/news/festivals-stand-united/ This is really weird and leaves so many questions. By “this Summer” do they leave the possibility of all delaying to later in the Summer? Aren’t they going to have to decide now? If no (or even if yes) should they be so crazily confident about something they have no control over? Did Primavera sign off on this or has Roskilde “gone rogue”?! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puckno Posted March 21, 2020 Report Share Posted March 21, 2020 1 hour ago, xxialac said: Aren’t they going to have to decide now? Clearly Roskilde is going to wait for the government to cancel for them. This might not happen until a month before the festival. So they try to build a 'for all good reasons' narrative, in hope for the public to not get too angry with the wait. I will not be surprised if they next build a 'save our community' narrative to argue against a full refund and hope for the public to buy into that as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl_Mcr Posted March 21, 2020 Report Share Posted March 21, 2020 https://www.ara.cat/cultura/Primavera-Sound-cancellacio-ajornament-coronavirus-Covid-19_0_2420758124.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxialac Posted March 21, 2020 Report Share Posted March 21, 2020 59 minutes ago, Karl_Mcr said: https://www.ara.cat/cultura/Primavera-Sound-cancellacio-ajornament-coronavirus-Covid-19_0_2420758124.html Don't really get it. This is surely a matter of national importance and no amount of support from the local govt is going to count for much if the virus is still raging. No one can "guarantee" anything. And surely they've moved their thinking on from August? Way too risky, when the peak is predicted for May/June. Maybe this is just a PR piece to lobby the local govt to provide some more financial support? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl_Mcr Posted March 22, 2020 Report Share Posted March 22, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, xxialac said: Don't really get it. This is surely a matter of national importance and no amount of support from the local govt is going to count for much if the virus is still raging. No one can "guarantee" anything. And surely they've moved their thinking on from August? Way too risky, when the peak is predicted for May/June. Maybe this is just a PR piece to lobby the local govt to provide some more financial support? I do get the PR 'what about us' angle, I was wondering if it is just lost in translation, or are they saying that it could be completely finished as a festival, for financial reasons ? We all presume that they are waiting to told its off by the govt, to trigger the insurance... What if that isn't as forthcoming as they wish? Edited March 22, 2020 by Karl_Mcr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puckno Posted March 22, 2020 Report Share Posted March 22, 2020 8 hours ago, Karl_Mcr said: We all presume that they are waiting to told its off by the govt, to trigger the insurance. Actually, I don't expect them to have insurance, to cover the situation, but I do expect them to have force majeure clauses in all contracts, e.g. the ticket terms '... Bad weather, natural disasters, Spanish airspace closure or any other force majeure will not lead to ticket refunds.... ' and thus they manage to get out of everything with all parties without breaking contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxialac Posted March 22, 2020 Report Share Posted March 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, puckno said: Actually, I don't expect them to have insurance, to cover the situation, but I do expect them to have force majeure clauses in all contracts, e.g. the ticket terms '... Bad weather, natural disasters, Spanish airspace closure or any other force majeure will not lead to ticket refunds.... ' and thus they manage to get out of everything with all parties without breaking contracts. Yeah suspect that’s right. They do of course have a large team of organisers who were planning to run 4 festivals this year at one point. It must be extremely hard to retain them in this uncertain environment. If they carry on paying them and then nothing goes ahead that’s a black hole in their finances. Makes most sense to me to plan a cut down Primavera and only in Barcelona. Which limits their potential profits but also would reduce their losses if it doesn’t go ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Toad Posted March 22, 2020 Report Share Posted March 22, 2020 If their press releases were true, they sold thousands of full festival tickets already and got paid for them. Against that money, they mainly had their own wages to pay. That cannot be a problem. If they don't have to pay the artists and cut their other expenses by canceling now, AND don't give a refund, Primavera 20 would be the most profitable edition ever. So, I don't think they can afford NOT to refund but probably will offer an exchange of the tickets for 2021. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxialac Posted March 22, 2020 Report Share Posted March 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Chilly Toad said: If their press releases were true, they sold thousands of full festival tickets already and got paid for them. Against that money, they mainly had their own wages to pay. That cannot be a problem. If they don't have to pay the artists and cut their other expenses by canceling now, AND don't give a refund, Primavera 20 would be the most profitable edition ever. So, I don't think they can afford NOT to refund but probably will offer an exchange of the tickets for 2021. Completely with you. There's no way they won't try and encourage people to take a ticket exchange. Far better for cashflow and will keep them solvent for now. That said, if Primavera doesn't happen this year, they will obviously incur net losses. Two years of salaries (based on planning for 3 festivals) and only one year's income. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puckno Posted March 22, 2020 Report Share Posted March 22, 2020 Of course they will refund money if they still have them. If they do not still have them then that might be a problem. If they refund by now they are still in the contracts with artists, venues, vendors, +++ So they cannot do that. They need government interventions to get out of those contracts. If their finances are ok all the ticket revenues from 2019 are not put into the 2019 result and the burn rate has not been too extensive they could still have most of the money. But who knows how they have managed this. No matter what I expect them at this point to have less cash than is actually spent on tickets. How much less we do not know. I expect to see offers to carry over the tickets to next year. That will probably help them alot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxialac Posted March 22, 2020 Report Share Posted March 22, 2020 Appears they are lobbying the local government for financial support to get them through the next period and/or to not remove the current subsidy. Think they are implicitly threatening to move elsewhere, which would be a financial and employment loss the city council would surely want to avoid (so much so, they give the festival a subsidy every year). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whos3000 Posted March 22, 2020 Report Share Posted March 22, 2020 Diiv announced some days ago for the 29th of August in Italy anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohjesus Posted March 22, 2020 Report Share Posted March 22, 2020 27 minutes ago, whos3000 said: Diiv announced some days ago for the 29th of August in Italy anyway the likelihood of the fest having the same line up if rescheduled is even less than it happening in June I reckon but even sept/August seems unlikely now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxialac Posted March 23, 2020 Report Share Posted March 23, 2020 All eyes on Italy. It looks as though it might have turned a corner but needs to be validated with another lower number today. If so will be better able to forecast when life gets back to relatively normal in Italy and Spain seems to be a week behind so could hope to follow a similar trajectory from here on in. This is vital info for anyone trying to plan anything in Spain this year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveje Posted March 23, 2020 Report Share Posted March 23, 2020 Don't bet on it. Infections might be getting a bit more under control, but the fatality numbers suggest health care systems getting overwhelmed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxialac Posted March 23, 2020 Report Share Posted March 23, 2020 7 minutes ago, daveje said: Don't bet on it. Infections might be getting a bit more under control, but the fatality numbers suggest health care systems getting overwhelmed. Was referring to the fatality numbers. They dropped for the first time yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveje Posted March 23, 2020 Report Share Posted March 23, 2020 Actually no, you can look back on the spain fatality numbers day-by-day and see a few one day falls in the numbers. Give it a few days to see if there's a trend. One day proves nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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