Are Tories welcome at Glastonbury

[clarkete]

16 minutes ago, glastolover19 said:

Potentially yes,I suppose it depends if you yourself think the amount you pay is fair and also if the taxes are being used properly. Personally I kinda see tax as a punishment and that is because I don't see any improvement in my community. I know taxes pay for a whole range of things but folks rightfully get pee'd of when there's still pot holes in their street or can't get gp appointment till sometime next year or like I already said when schools can't afford books. Tax is not a bad thing per say but where it goes is the problem for me

I'm not happy when it's used to pay for questionable capital projects like Hinkley, HS2, aircraft carriers without planes, things that seem to be as much a political statement as anything else.  Usually our capital projects cost much more than their original estimates.

Well at least they've allocated money for pot holes, so someone will be happy.

[Crazyfool01]

im not so sure users of this forum will appreciate pot being put in holes ... might be a vote looser 

[glastolover19]

23 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

im not so sure users of this forum will appreciate pot being put in holes ... might be a vote looser 

Don't worry I'll scoop it out and skin up

[glastolover19]

39 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

Health and Social Care: Defence: welfare/pensions: Education: Local and national infrastructure (roads, transport etc.). There you go. That’s over 3/4 of where all your taxes go. Which bits don’t you like? 

And what improvements have all of those sectors made?

Welfare/pensions-still elderly folks who can't afford heating.

Education- still teachers buying books out of their own money because schools can't afford them.

National infrastructure-roads that are broken/riddled with potholes or you mean the hs2 or councils having to cut bus services? 

[Blisterpack]

24 minutes ago, glastolover19 said:

And what improvements have all of those sectors made?

Welfare/pensions-still elderly folks who can't afford heating.

Education- still teachers buying books out of their own money because schools can't afford them.

National infrastructure-roads that are broken/riddled with potholes or you mean the hs2 or councils having to cut bus services? 

Are we agreeing here? They all need more money. I thought you said you had a problem with where taxes were spent. The vast majority is on those things mentioned, but they all need more. I’m no fan of HS2 by the way. The one thing Labour /Tories agree on and they are both so,so wrong. 

[RichardWaller]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

elections aren't binary votes on just one thing. There's a million different reasons why people vote as they do.

I don't think it helps anything to reduce a chunk of the population to a single idea, which is often false anyway. Think about it; do you agree with everything about 'the left'? Think about it; that sort of stereotyping is frowned upon if used against minorities.

There's more than enough real shit in the world. Why invent some extra?

How am I reducing a chunk of the population to a single idea? Have you even been reading my comments? Course I think about why people vote the way they do, course I don’t agree with everything about the “left”.

[glastolover19]

25 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

Are we agreeing here? They all need more money. I thought you said you had a problem with where taxes were spent. The vast majority is on those things mentioned, but they all need more. I’m no fan of HS2 by the way. The one thing Labour /Tories agree on and they are both so,so wrong. 

I don't have a problem where they go as such more how its used when it gets there

[Blisterpack]

4 minutes ago, glastolover19 said:

I don't have a problem where they go as such more how its used when it gets there

I don’t work in local government but work closely with them. In my 30 odd year professional career I don’t think i have come across such a cost/value conscious culture. They really do look to get maximum bang for buck- far more than I am used to in the private sector. Waste is far less common than we are told I suspect. 

[eFestivals]

27 minutes ago, RichardWaller said:

How am I reducing a chunk of the population to a single idea? Have you even been reading my comments? Course I think about why people vote the way they do, course I don’t agree with everything about the “left”.

you talked about 'a common enemy'. 

[RichardWaller]

35 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

you talked about 'a common enemy'. 

I was talking about a political party, I’m not talking about so-and-so down the road, sorry if that wasn’t obvious enough.

[eFestivals]

6 hours ago, eFestivals said:

I've yet to see anyone complaining about the rise in the personal allowance, which if cancelled could (for example) mean hundreds extra for every pupil.

And now I have. Three cheers for Andy Burnham.

Only to be shot down by John McD, who wants to tax the rich more than he wants public services funded.  

[glastolover19]

1 hour ago, Blisterpack said:

I don’t work in local government but work closely with them. In my 30 odd year professional career I don’t think i have come across such a cost/value conscious culture. They really do look to get maximum bang for buck- far more than I am used to in the private sector. Waste is far less common than we are told I suspect. 

Yes they may want more for the money but if its spent stupidly in the first place what's the point? But then again to be fair its a subjective subject,what I think to be a waste might not be the same for you and vice versa

[Blisterpack]

3 minutes ago, glastolover19 said:

Yes they may want more for the money but if its spent stupidly in the first place what's the point? But then again to be fair its a subjective subject,what I think to be a waste might not be the same for you and vice versa

I have seen very little in terms of waste since I have worked alongside local government officers in the past few years. Quite the opposite I’d say. Seriously - they are very, very good. And I’m talking about Labour and Tory administrations to be fair. On budget and on time major capital schemes that deliver expected benefits. I’m not sure what more they can do. I have less experience with central government schemes so I can’t really comment on those. 

[glastolover19]

6 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

I have seen very little in terms of waste since I have worked alongside local government officers in the past few years. Quite the opposite I’d say. Seriously - they are very, very good. And I’m talking about Labour and Tory administrations to be fair. On budget and on time major capital schemes that deliver expected benefits. I’m not sure what more they can do. I have less experience with central government schemes so I can’t really comment on those. 

I get what you're saying. I'm saying that whilst they may well ring every penny out of each project efficiently,if the projects are pointless then it's not value for money. But like I also said it's subjective wether you think the money is going to the right areas. Personally I'd rather not see my local authority waste money on (what I perceive as)  vanity projects yet then have to close libraries or bus services to pay for it

[Blisterpack]

2 minutes ago, glastolover19 said:

I get what you're saying. I'm saying that whilst they may well ring every penny out of each project efficiently,if the projects are pointless then it's not value for money. But like I also said it's subjective wether you think the money is going to the right areas. Personally I'd rather not see my local authority waste money on (what I perceive as)  vanity projects yet then have to close libraries or bus services to pay for it

That’s fair enough. What sort of vanity projects are you thinking of?  Where I am based (oop North!) they are few and far between I think. The big cities (Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds I have personal experience with) have delivered some spectacular successes, whilst some of the smaller councils  have been very imaginative. Check out the Mersey gateway bridge delivered by Halton Council: on budget, on time, costed and quite honestly as beautiful a piece of civil engineering as you will see anywhere in the world.  And the legal consultancy work they received for it wasn’t too shabby either...?

[glastolover19]

16 minutes ago, Blisterpack said:

That’s fair enough. What sort of vanity projects are you thinking of?  Where I am based (oop North!) they are few and far between I think. The big cities (Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds I have personal experience with) have delivered some spectacular successes, whilst some of the smaller councils  have been very imaginative. Check out the Mersey gateway bridge delivered by Halton Council: on budget, on time, costed and quite honestly as beautiful a piece of civil engineering as you will see anywhere in the world.  And the legal consultancy work they received for it wasn’t too shabby either...?

If you just Google Somerset council cuts it will come up with a ton of stuff about services being cut. I appreciate that everyone has a different view on what qualifies as essential/non essential services,me personally find it insane when a council spends £15+ mil on road works(a town not far from me) yet can't afford to fund libraries or schools

[Blisterpack]

54 minutes ago, glastolover19 said:

If you just Google Somerset council cuts it will come up with a ton of stuff about services being cut. I appreciate that everyone has a different view on what qualifies as essential/non essential services,me personally find it insane when a council spends £15+ mil on road works(a town not far from me) yet can't afford to fund libraries or schools

You do know that local government has shouldered the bulk of the public sector cuts over the past eight years don’t you?  Serious question. As in about 30% less money to spend than they had  in 2010. To some extent it’s a miracle they aren’t all bankrupt. But yes, I did hear something about Somerset (Northampton as well I think)!which suggests they may have buckled. 

And funding roadworks is usually a critical contribution to keeping your local economy afloat. 

Edited October 30, 2018 by Blisterpack

[glastolover19]

1 minute ago, Blisterpack said:

You do know that local government have shouldered the bulk of the public sector cuts over the past eight years don’t you?  Serious question. As in about 30% less money to spend than they had  on 2010. To some extent it’s a miracle they aren’t all bankrupt. But yes, I did hear something about Somerset (Northampton as well I think)!which suggests they may have buckled. 

Oh no I didn't know that,obviously I'm kidding,yes I'm aware. Frankly I too am surprised they are not bankrupt(yet) but I'm not really sure where we got lost on this because I have said all along it subjective if you think your taxes are a "punishment"(as per Richard's quote I originally responded to) to which I replied yes it feels like that if you don't feel they are being used wisely. What I consider a essential service might not be the same as yours. I personally believe a majority of my taxes go to a good cause however I don't feel that those good causes necessary spend it in a good way and that applies across the board from local to national government but then again that's subjective 

[Mr.Tease]

2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

And now I have. Three cheers for Andy Burnham.

Only to be shot down by John McD, who wants to tax the rich more than he wants public services funded.  

This budget is purely a tactical one- the purpose is so Hammond can use it as a threat if/when May presents her final brexit deal ("ooh, I'll have to cancel all those tax cuts and extra NHS spending if you don't back it"). Labour is responding to it tactically but based on their belief that they think it's a pre-cursor to an election (I think they're wrong there), so they don't want to get painted into a "they're going to raise taxes" corner going into the election (just like last election they said they wouldn't raise income tax except for the top 5%). I trust McDonnell's tactics/strategy, because I do think he is pretty good at them and he's proved me wrong on several occasions!

In all honestly I'll be very surprised if this budget even comes to pass- it requires May to actually finalise a brexit deal AND get it through parliament, if she can't do that it's either hard brexit (so the budget gets changed), referendum (who knows what happens to May if that comes to pass), leadership contest (if there's a new leader the budget likely gets changed) or election. It's just posturing for both sides at this point.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Mr.Tease

[RichardWaller]

22 hours ago, glastolover19 said:

Potentially yes,I suppose it depends if you yourself think the amount you pay is fair and also if the taxes are being used properly. Personally I kinda see tax as a punishment and that is because I don't see any improvement in my community. I know taxes pay for a whole range of things but folks rightfully get pee'd of when there's still pot holes in their street or can't get gp appointment till sometime next year or like I already said when schools can't afford books. Tax is not a bad thing per say but where it goes is the problem for me

Sorry, missed this in the middle of a few other notifications.

Yeah, different people have different ideas of fair and personally I don't think there's that much correlation between hard work and salaries. My basic salary is about 2/3 average and even with low self esteem I think I'm worth more than that. On the other hand, there are people working harder than I do for less.

I wish our taxes were spent differently too, don't see any improvement in my community and at work like most the public sector, it's been getting progressively worse for years. I do have some resentment that we're subsidising large businesses often in the form of tax cuts, grants and welfare for their employees. I know we're far from an ideal world but we're in a bloody rich country and I think any full time job in this country should pay enough to live on without people relying on welfare. Funny how we've got people who've never had to try to get by on minimum wage deciding that that's enough to live on. But yeah, all we can do really is vote for whoever says they're going to spend our taxes closest to how we'd like them to, but no guarantees they will eh. Course increased investment in schools and the NHS won't solve everything, but it's better than chucking petrol on a fire.

[glastolover19]

28 minutes ago, RichardWaller said:

Sorry, missed this in the middle of a few other notifications.

Yeah, different people have different ideas of fair and personally I don't think there's that much correlation between hard work and salaries. My basic salary is about 2/3 average and even with low self esteem I think I'm worth more than that. On the other hand, there are people working harder than I do for less.

I wish our taxes were spent differently too, don't see any improvement in my community and at work like most the public sector, it's been getting progressively worse for years. I do have some resentment that we're subsidising large businesses often in the form of tax cuts, grants and welfare for their employees. I know we're far from an ideal world but we're in a bloody rich country and I think any full time job in this country should pay enough to live on without people relying on welfare. Funny how we've got people who've never had to try to get by on minimum wage deciding that that's enough to live on. But yeah, all we can do really is vote for whoever says they're going to spend our taxes closest to how we'd like them to, but no guarantees they will eh. Course increased investment in schools and the NHS won't solve everything, but it's better than chucking petrol on a fire.

You are right there is no correlation between working hard and pay,I'm only speaking for myself and my work but the guy in my place who packs 20 pallets is getting paid the same as the guy who only goes 5,yeah it's not fair but unfortunately the way pay systems work now is there no incentive to work a bit harder anymore.

Like I said somewhere else on this thread where your taxes go and how they are spent is very subjective but I certainly don't feel my community or local area has improved if anything I feel it's actually declined. 

I totally agree that no person in ft employment should need to rely on welfare and the basic wage should be a good few quid higher then it is.

As for subsidizing businesses,yes I don't think it's right but on the other hand what happens if you don't? Ultimately it will end up with more people unemployed. I do believe that everyone should pay the same level of tax wether rich or poor,to me that's fair.

I think education and health care should get extra however I do think that the way the money is used once the have it should be looked into because I do think a lot is wasted or not getting to where it's needed. 

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, glastolover19 said:

Like I said somewhere else on this thread where your taxes go and how they are spent is very subjective but I certainly don't feel my community or local area has improved if anything I feel it's actually declined. 

that's not because they are being badly spent, but because the taxes aren't enough to fund the work needed to stop the decline you've noticed.

[glastolover19]

6 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

that's not because they are being badly spent, but because the taxes aren't enough to fund the work needed to stop the decline you've noticed.

That's why I said it's subjective,to me building some cycle lanes is less important then buying school books

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, glastolover19 said:

That's why I said it's subjective,to me building some cycle lanes is less important then buying school books

there's always hard choices to be made when there's limited resources - but by your method, the cycle lane would never happen because there's always something more important.

And yet if it had been done (say) 20 years ago, that extra 20 years benefit would have had a significant effect on society, thru less imported oil, less traffic, fewer fumes, and better fitness. And the 'less imported oil' would have freed up money to be spent somewhere else in the economy, perhaps on school books.

So I'm glad that even in the hardest of times those in control are able to see a bigger picture than immediate need - else we'd never really get any improvements in society. Investment projects with clear benefits are important.

[Blisterpack]

1 hour ago, glastolover19 said:

That's why I said it's subjective,to me building some cycle lanes is less important then buying school books

Germany has never under-invested in roads, rail and, yes, cycle paths. As a country there is absolute consensus that not spending in those areas is a false economy. As a result they have embarrassingly better roads, bridges, railways, airports, cycle routes- you name it, it’s better - and they have a better performing (and resolute)!economy, partly as a result of that investment. It’s not an ‘either/or’ question most of the time; it’s ‘how do we maximise long term growth and what do we do with the fruits of that growth?’