This morning...

[CaledonianGonzo]

5 minutes ago, zahidf said:

That's real?  

Jings.

[SwedgeAntilles]

Haha, I love that Dick Cheney's thrown in with two fictional evil characters, now that's proper evil credentials 

[eFestivals]

15 minutes ago, zahidf said:

he's pointing out that when you call him a nazi and he proves himself to not be a nazi, it won't be him that looks bad for it.

What did you miss, zahidf?

[eFestivals]

12 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

Sorry, was just talking in general rather than responding to anything specific that you've said.

You joined in with the attack on me personally, and chucked that in like it was related to me.

Thank you, at least, for being big enough to admit it's not related to me (or anything at all in this thread, as it happens). it's at least more than others have done for their errors.

 

[eFestivals]

27 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

That's real?  

Jings.

Read it again.

it's saying the exact opposite to what you must be thinking it is.

He's pointing out that Cheney was called all sorts - and none of it stuck, because he wasn't the devil he was painted as.

Nasty, yes - but well short of the claims. It gave Cheney more of a free hand to be nasty, not less.

Edited November 19, 2016 by eFestivals

[CaledonianGonzo]

6 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

You joined in with the attack on me personally, and chucked that in like it was related to me.

Thank you, at least, for being big enough to admit it's not related to me (or anything at all in this thread, as it happens). it's at least more than others have done for their errors.

 

Sorry. I've not read the whole thread and wasn't seeking any sort of confrontation or to attack anyone.

[zahidf]

Racist president
Racist chief strategist
Racist attorney general
Racist natsec advisor
 "how Trump will govern remains to be seen"

[eFestivals]

28 minutes ago, SwedgeAntilles said:

Haha, I love that Dick Cheney's thrown in with two fictional evil characters, now that's proper evil credentials 

nope, he's saying that Cheney was called Satan and other things.

When Cheney got called Satan and proved to not be Satan, was it Cheney that looked bad, or did it give Cheney a free-er hand to be nasty?

[zahidf]

4 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

nope, he's saying that Cheney was called Satan and other things.

When Cheney got called Satan and proved to not be Satan, was it Cheney that looked bad, or did it give Cheney a free-er hand to be nasty?

 

4 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

nope, he's saying that Cheney was called Satan and other things.

When Cheney got called Satan and proved to not be Satan, was it Cheney that looked bad, or did it give Cheney a free-er hand to be nasty?

Well, i think saying Cheney wasnt proven to be evil is a stretch...

He was so evil, he shot a friend in the face, and made his friend apologise!

[SwedgeAntilles]

16 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

nope, he's saying that Cheney was called Satan and other things.

When Cheney got called Satan and proved to not be Satan, was it Cheney that looked bad, or did it give Cheney a free-er hand to be nasty?

To use a Scottish legal term, surely it remains 'not proven' at best?

[eFestivals]

Just now, zahidf said:

Racist president
Racist chief strategist
Racist attorney general
Racist natsec advisor
 "how Trump will govern remains to be seen"

I'm aware of his past from 30 years ago, that was unproven .... but let's for a moment go with it being proven and true.

For 30 years he's not been accused of racism. Is that because he's habitually racist or because .... he's not, just perhaps.

And, are the crimes of 30 years ago still applicable? Or can someone reform?

I'm not trying to pretend he might be a fluffy liberal today, I'm simply pointing out that he's not with certainty what you claim, just as you claim a "Racist chief strategist" (who not long ago was "a literal nazi") but even the ADL say he's not a known anti-semetic.

If we sum up Trump and side kicks, what words can we use? Nasty? Yep. Racist in word? Yep. The harder line of the Republican party? Yep.

Racist in deed? We'll have to see, and how far. 

Will it be exceptionally racist? Hugely unlikely. 

So just the normal republicans in govt, then.

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, SwedgeAntilles said:

To use a Scottish legal term, surely it remains 'not proven' at best?

 - fair point.

But I do hope you've re-read Bannon's words, and grasped what he's really saying. 

So who's dumb enough to make him happy? zahidf is happy to do the work of racists, but who else?

Edited November 19, 2016 by eFestivals

[SwedgeAntilles]

14 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

 - fair point.

But I do hope you've re-read Bannon's words, and grasped what he's really saying. 

So who's dumb enough to make him happy? zahidf is happy to do the work of racists, but who else?

For what's it's worth I agree with you on that, that's why I didn't jump in earlier in the thread as I felt my thoughts had already been covered (particularly in @stuartbert two hats big post yesterday). However I do share Calgon's wariness that in an attempt not to overreact or pander to Trump's side - as you rightly flag above - we risk not doing enough.

It's a hugely complex situation that we find ourselves and I don't think there any easy answers as to how those of us that disagree with recent elections, be they Brexit/US or the upcoming French elections convince those that voted otherwise to change their minds when our approach up until now has clearly been pretty toxic.

[zahidf]

7 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I'm aware of his past from 30 years ago, that was unproven .... but let's for a moment go with it being proven and true.

For 30 years he's not been accused of racism. Is that because he's habitually racist or because .... he's not, just perhaps.

And, are the crimes of 30 years ago still applicable? Or can someone reform?

I'm not trying to pretend he might be a fluffy liberal today, I'm simply pointing out that he's not with certainty what you claim, just as you claim a "Racist chief strategist" (who not long ago was "a literal nazi") but even the ADL say he's not a known anti-semetic.

If we sum up Trump and side kicks, what words can we use? Nasty? Yep. Racist in word? Yep. The harder line of the Republican party? Yep.

Racist in deed? We'll have to see, and how far. 

Will it be exceptionally racist? Hugely unlikely. 

So just the normal republicans in govt, then.

I posted his voting record from earlier. He voted against most legislation designed to help minorities. over the years. I doubt its a coincidence.

I think expecting a racist in word not to be one in action is overly hopeful

[Cornelius_Fudge]

15 minutes ago, zahidf said:

I posted his voting record from earlier. He voted against most legislation designed to help minorities. over the years. I doubt its a coincidence.

I think expecting a racist in word not to be one in action is overly hopeful

But there are other reasons for this, not just because someone is racist. I think, more logically he isn't voting against minorities because they're minorities, he's voting against legislation that he thinks doesn't help the poor, not minorities.

One of the main Republican mantras is that a person has to help themselves and not just be reliant on the state and welfare. Change has to come from a person and realise that they can't keep relying on someone else giving out handouts, but through their own responsibilities.

It's fairly standard Republican stuff

[waterfalls212434]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/identifying-white-nationalist-steve-bannon_us_582e2f7fe4b099512f81f17c?



`Of course, calling a person a “white nationalist” who hasn’t self-identified as one is somewhat fraught. In Bannon’s case, the website he runs peddles racist and misogynist conspiracy theories and is a go-to resource for white nationalists, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center, which monitors hate groups. Whether or not Bannon personally holds white nationalist views, it’s indisputable that his website has perpetuated them.

As David Pilgrim, founder and curator of the Jim Crow Museum at Ferris State University in Michigan, said, it’s useful to look at an individual’s statements, associations and sentiments. “It becomes one of those ‘if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and quacks like a duck’ kind of things,” he said.

The Trump campaign denies allegations that Bannon is a white nationalist or a part of the so-called alt-right, the movement’s latest preferred moniker. “Nothing could be further from the truth, and it’s irresponsible for anyone to even make such a baseless accusation,” said Jason Miller, communications director for Trump’s transition team, in a statement provided to The Huffington Post.

Bannon in July told Mother Jones: “We’re the platform for the alt-right” and that the site espoused a “nationalist” philosophy but argued that its attraction for racists was incidental.`



When it comes to certain people it seems `if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck`......people will set out 100 `carefully googled`  points as to why you shouldnt call it a duck.....and why it `didnt mean to quack when it quacks` and why `its quacking is actually something else it just sounds like quacking`...lol

Id rather just call it a duck and be done with it, I dont understand for the life of me why people would waste energy and effort pretending otherwise, that is my attitude take it or leave it, its a fucking duck! deal with it! haha




 

Edited November 19, 2016 by waterfalls212434

[zahidf]

[zahidf]

 

He really is easily wound up. The word 'dignity' seems a foreign concept

 

[zero000]

"Trump backs safe spaces"

[Cornelius_Fudge]

2 hours ago, zahidf said:

Why does anyone read History anymore at university when memes explain everything

[The Nal]

[CaledonianGonzo]

The point about fascism not arriving wearing jackboots and skull insignias is still valid, though.

[fur_q]

3 hours ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

The point about fascism not arriving wearing jackboots and skull insignias is still valid, though.

Exactly this, generally can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading on this thread, it it quacks like a duck I'm calling it a duck and for everyone  claiming  I/you/they are not racist you're either lying or you don't understand racism. 

[SwedgeAntilles]

[fur_q]

1 hour ago, fur_q said:

 it it quacks like a duck I'm calling it a duck 

Nazism was a brand fascism was the product I'm still calling my 'Wilko clear plastic tape' Sellotape