General Election 2015

[feral chile]

Clearly Alex Salmond is to blame for this

why, for not being Welsh?

[Comfy Bean]

In a genuine attempt to reflect on where it went wrong for Labour in Scotland I would like to offer the following article. I am not saying Jimbo is 100% to blame. Of course it`s more complicated than that but as we try and piece it all together, this kind of utter nonsense must be considered..........or just blame the SNP.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jamieross/its-been-easy-its-been-to-outdo-the-snp

[Comfy Bean]

why, for not being Welsh?

Apologies as I can`t remember her name but I thought the lady who appeared on the tv debates came over really well. I honestly have no idea why the folk in Wales ( and england ) voted for Dave in such numbers. I know Wales, like Scotland used to be Labour heartlands. I`ve said before, as have others, that when Scotland becomes Indy then it could be good for everyone. Perhaps Wales will change their view in the future.

Edit : Leanne Wood. Bit hungover here and was too lazy to check

Edited May 9, 2015 by comfortablynumb1910

[kaosmark2]

SNP are an independence party using progressive policies as a means to an end. They've played a blinder tactically, but I don't think Scotland or the UK will be better off for it.

I suspect in time SNP voters will come to realise this. I hope they don't have to.

[feral chile]

Apologies as I can`t remember her name but I thought the lady who appeared on the tv debates came over really well. I honestly have no idea why the folk in Wales ( and england ) voted for Dave in such numbers. I know Wales, like Scotland used to be Labour heartlands. I`ve said before, as have others, that when Scotland becomes Indy then it could be good for everyone. Perhaps Wales will change their view in the future.

Edit : Leanne Wood. Bit hungover here and was too lazy to check

I though she came over well too, Plaid tend not to do well on a national level, but that's usually because of generations of loyal labour voters. And strategic voting.

I'm from the Valleys, and have never met anyone who would admit to voting Tory.

[Comfy Bean]

SNP are an independence party using progressive policies as a means to an end. They've played a blinder tactically, but I don't think Scotland or the UK will be better off for it.

I suspect in time SNP voters will come to realise this. I hope they don't have to.

Fair enough mate. As you know the SNP took 56 seats. The folk up here know where they stand on independence. They didn`t get enough support for Independence last year but we now know that " some " no voters and previous labour voters are now right behind NS.

I had no issue with Salmond but I appreciate a lot of people in Scotland did. NS is winning rave reviews across the UK. More so in Scotland.

I suspect the SNP voters know exactly what they are voting for and are becoming more and more comfortable with it.

[Comfy Bean]

Neil, how about creating your own thread :

" Rupert Murdoch is a c*nt "

You could even do one of those wee Poll thingys and we could all vote in agreement with you. Perhaps that would make you feel better. Many of us have pointed out to you many times that Murdoch is indeed a c*nt. We have also pointed out that he is only interested in Murdoch and will jump on any winning band wagon. Winning is the key word here. He likes to be seen to be on the winning side and therefore backs winners. On Thursday, he backed the winner in both editions. English and Scottish. As fine you know he only brought the Sun out up my way in support of the SNP the day AFTER the poll showing the SNP could take ALL the seats...which they nearly did.

I have already posted a previous front page of the scottish edition where he had the SNP logo in a noose on the eve of an election....stay classy !

I wish you would stop cheer leading for his influence. I`m pretty sure no-one on here buys his papers so start your poll and stop giving him credit. I suppose we do all cheer for the footy teams he funds but thats another story *

* For the record he has no influence over my footy team.

Edit : Should have said that no-one is disputing the emails between him and Salmond that you keep bringing up. Nothing anyone is proud of. He has undoubtedly had influence over many mps across many parties. Nothing for any of them to be proud of. I`m assuming his influence is on the wane which we will all be happy about. If you had anything on him and NS then I`m sure you would be posting it..........hourly

Edited May 9, 2015 by comfortablynumb1910

[Comfy Bean]

Apparently 'burly blokes' are stopping non nats from voting up at one polling station in Scotland.

Oh Dear

where's that info from...?

Heart skips a beat

Dumfries and Galloway council put out a statement on their twitter saying she was talking mince. Guessing someone told her with no proof and she decided to tweet anyways. I'm sure we're all surprised a Tory has been telling porkies!

https://twitter.com/dgcouncil/status/596302016416247810

Woops

The sad thing is given their antics leading up to the election no one would be surprised if that was true.

Lets just go with it anyway

[Comfy Bean]

For some reason I can`t cut and paste the map on the BBC site showing Scotland in yellow and England mostly in blue. Of course there is no Scotland in a UK election as we know but it`s the best way to describe the map that I`m trying to describe.

Think it is a useful tool to illustrate our political union going forward.

[LJS]

Neil, how about creating your own thread :

" Rupert Murdoch is a c*nt "

You could even do one of those wee Poll thingys and we could all vote in agreement with you. Perhaps that would make you feel better. Many of us have pointed out to you many times that Murdoch is indeed a c*nt. We have also pointed out that he is only interested in Murdoch and will jump on any winning band wagon. Winning is the key word here. He likes to be seen to be on the winning side and therefore backs winners. On Thursday, he backed the winner in both editions. English and Scottish. As fine you know he only brought the Sun out up my way in support of the SNP the day AFTER the poll showing the SNP could take ALL the seats...which they nearly did.

I have already posted a previous front page of the scottish edition where he had the SNP logo in a noose on the eve of an election....stay classy !

I wish you would stop cheer leading for his influence. I`m pretty sure no-one on here buys his papers so start your poll and stop giving him credit. I suppose we do all cheer for the footy teams he funds but thats another story *

* For the record he has no influence over my footy team.

Edit : Should have said that no-one is disputing the emails between him and Salmond that you keep bringing up. Nothing anyone is proud of. He has undoubtedly had influence over many mps across many parties. Nothing for any of them to be proud of. I`m assuming his influence is on the wane which we will all be happy about. If you had anything on him and NS then I`m sure you would be posting it..........hourly

I'll vote for the Murdoch is a #c*nt party.

Never given the man a penny for a newspaper since the Wapping days. Did have Sky for a year or two when I lived in Shetland but only because it was the only way to get decent reception where i lived. What about you Neil, you got Sky?

he doesn't sponsor my team either. Worryingly our sponsor is Irn Bru

Which might link us in with Jim Murphy somewhere!!!

[LJS]

For some reason I can`t cut and paste the map on the BBC site showing Scotland in yellow and England mostly in blue. Of course there is no Scotland in a UK election as we know but it`s the best way to describe the map that I`m trying to describe.

Think it is a useful tool to illustrate our political union going forward.

here you go

UK election map looks like Maggie Simpson

Edited May 9, 2015 by LJS

[kaosmark2]

For some reason I can`t cut and paste the map on the BBC site showing Scotland in yellow and RURAL England mostly in blue. Of course there is no Scotland in a UK election as we know but it`s the best way to describe the map that I`m trying to describe.

Think it is a useful tool to illustrate our political union going forward.

FIFY

[LJS]

First real test of Cameron's second term today.

Aston Ham v. West Villa.

[bunique]

I've been added to a Facebook group today that started yesterday, of Lefty women... 4000 members already. Several friends have joined the Labour Party in order to vote in the next leadership election and several more joined the Greens in the course of the election run up. Maybe this election will galvanise the (proper) Left to influence 2020?

[viberunner]

And I know exactly why the English electorate have picked who they have. I've spent the last three months telling you that's what they're like. I warned you that the SNP risked causing a tory win by their me-me-me-isms, but apparently, according to the most wise in Scotland, I was wrong and that was impossible and England wanted something more left-wing and not more right-wing.

The English voted Conservative (and 4 million for UKIP) because Haggis?

Take some responsibility, mate. And also just accept what England is. It's a country full of Victor Meldrews with the occasional Dave Spart.

As a Dave Spart type myself I'm glad I left and moved into the country full of Jock McSparts interspersed with the occasional Hamish McMeldrew.

[viberunner]

In a genuine attempt to reflect on where it went wrong for Labour in Scotland I would like to offer the following article. I am not saying Jimbo is 100% to blame. Of course it`s more complicated than that but as we try and piece it all together, this kind of utter nonsense must be considered..........or just blame the SNP.

I don't think Jimbo is much of a leader - he's clearly party clone through and through - but in fairness to him there isn't a man or woman in Scottish Labour (that I know of) who would have made the slightest difference at that election.

The die was cast when it was perceived London Labour said one thing to sway the NO vote and within hours it was reneged on.

Here's an article, from November 2014, in which Labour backbenchers are furious at Miliband for not embracing Income Tax devolution and suggesting it could wipe them out in Scotland.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/scottish-independence/smith-commission-labour-anger-grows-at-milibands-uturn-on-ceding-powers-to-holyrood-9888619.html

Other Labour MPs said Mr Miliband had no choice but to embrace income tax devolution.

“This might keep our losses in Scotland down to between seven and 12 seats,” one said, reflecting Labour’s gloom about its election prospects.

Well, A+ for optimism but E- for clairvoyance.

[lharris92]

We have also pointed out that he is only interested in Murdoch and will jump on any winning band wagon. Winning is the key word here. He likes to be seen to be on the winning side and therefore backs winners. On Thursday, he backed the winner in both editions. English and Scottish.

I have already posted a previous front page of the scottish edition where he had the SNP logo in a noose on the eve of an election....stay classy !

only going to comment on this bit as the rest holds.

Murdoch doesn't just jump on the winning bandwagon, at least not in England. Scotland it may be a different matter however here he backs the people who further his own agenda and won't make life difficult for him. Yes it may look like they are going to win anyway but the amount of votes he has influenced himself with his publications says it all. It also helps when he has them as friends (or them in his back pocket).

Blair was one of his buddies, so got the backing knowing he wouldn't do anything against him, whereas Brown alleged that there was more to the hacking scandal than had come to light, and Murdoch dropped his backing and switched to the tories when Brown was launching his election campaign - especially when there was talk that he would drop Cameron into the deep end.

Safe to say he also has had disagreements with Ed Miliband as well, hence his stance in Scotland would be anything but Labour ***

*** Not to say that this would have changed anything in Scotland as I do believe the SNP would have routed Labour anyway, but it probably gave them a few more votes than they possibly would have got.

Also go back to 1992, "It's the Sun wot won it". Headline says it all.

He protects his interests by backing those who don't oppose his business Empire, and those who he doesn't deem a threat. I'm sure if Cameron did something to upset him, it wouldn't take long for there to be a coup d'etat, it wouldn't happen immediately (especially after an election victory) but he would turn his back on him.

As for the bit about the Noose around SNP, in 2007 it was still pro Labour, since then its turned back into a Tory supporting publication, and the SNP have been on the rise ever since in Scotland as anger at being taken for granted by Labour, by changing tack there it could damage one of Labours strongholds further. All in the method by Murdoch to further his agenda, plus as has been suggested Alex Salmond got on his good side.

Just a few thoughts, please correct me if you think I'm wrong anywhere in this, always good for a little debate

[viberunner]

The Sun in England and Wales, about 1,600,000

Scottish Sun, 260,000

Irish Sun 60,000

I think people - including politicians - somewhat overestimate the power of Murdoch today.

The Sun (total circulation) approached 4 million in the 80s, the Scottish version was over 300 thousand a couple of years back and more before that.

His sales have been in freefall for years.

[LJS]

only going to comment on this bit as the rest holds.

Murdoch doesn't just jump on the winning bandwagon, at least not in England. Scotland it may be a different matter however here he backs the people who further his own agenda and won't make life difficult for him. Yes it may look like they are going to win anyway but the amount of votes he has influenced himself with his publications says it all. It also helps when he has them as friends (or them in his back pocket).

Blair was one of his buddies, so got the backing knowing he wouldn't do anything against him, whereas Brown alleged that there was more to the hacking scandal than had come to light, and Murdoch dropped his backing and switched to the tories when Brown was launching his election campaign - especially when there was talk that he would drop Cameron into the deep end.

Safe to say he also has had disagreements with Ed Miliband as well, hence his stance in Scotland would be anything but Labour ***

*** Not to say that this would have changed anything in Scotland as I do believe the SNP would have routed Labour anyway, but it probably gave them a few more votes than they possibly would have got.

Also go back to 1992, "It's the Sun wot won it". Headline says it all.

He protects his interests by backing those who don't oppose his business Empire, and those who he doesn't deem a threat. I'm sure if Cameron did something to upset him, it wouldn't take long for there to be a coup d'etat, it wouldn't happen immediately (especially after an election victory) but he would turn his back on him.

As for the bit about the Noose around SNP, in 2007 it was still pro Labour, since then its turned back into a Tory supporting publication, and the SNP have been on the rise ever since in Scotland as anger at being taken for granted by Labour, by changing tack there it could damage one of Labours strongholds further. All in the method by Murdoch to further his agenda, plus as has been suggested Alex Salmond got on his good side.

Just a few thoughts, please correct me if you think I'm wrong anywhere in this, always good for a little debate

I think what ir clear is that Murdoch wanted to put the boot into Labour, hence coming out for the Tories in England. There was no benefit to be gained from supporting the Tories in Scotland the most he could possibly achieve would be an increase from 1 to 2 seats (maybe 3 at a pinch) with the added possibility of letting Labour in elsewhere by splitting the anti- labour vote. No, the only effective way to kick Labour in Scotland is to side with the SNP. This has the added bonus for Murdoch of him being able to claim to be on the winning side which he definitely likes.

It is stretching credulity to suggest that his late declaration of support for the SNP actually made any significant difference to the result. Most of the seats were won comfortably by the SNP.

The only unanswered question is whether there was any sort of "arrangement" between Murdoch & the SNP. To the very best of my knowledge there is nothing linking the SNP to Murdoch for at least 3 years. Neil will probably claim that Salmond's historic links with Murdoch are "proof" of dodgy dealings. That view is as stupid as claiming that because there is no evidence the SNP are definitely blameless. The truth is we don't know. I would take the view that in those circumstances the SNP get the benefit of the doubt. Neil might claim the fact that Sturgeon welcomed the Sun's support is suspicious. I don't think that argument holds water either - she is hardly going to reject it - why would she want to deliberately make an enemy of Murdoch?

The truth is, I don't know for certain, but I certainly see no damning evidence suggesting the SNP are in some way in cahoots with Murdoch.

[pink_triangle]

Its silly in my view to claim the SNP cost us a Milliband led government. They however could have prevented us from having a conservative majority, in fairness so could Labour if they had picked the other Milliband, possibly even lib dems if they hadn't gone back on their student loan promise.

However the SNP clearly stated they wanted a labour led government and then acted in a way which made that less likely. The SNP rhetoric was welcomed by the conservatives and a huge inconvenience to labour. Either Sturgeon (and others of influence) were incredibly naïve in not knowing how they would spook the electorate south of the border or they felt a labour led government was not in their best interest, personally I don't think Sturgeon is stupid.

[LJS]

Its silly in my view to claim the SNP cost us a Milliband led government. They however could have prevented us from having a conservative majority, in fairness so could Labour if they had picked the other Milliband, possibly even lib dems if they hadn't gone back on their student loan promise.

However the SNP clearly stated they wanted a labour led government and then acted in a way which made that less likely. The SNP rhetoric was welcomed by the conservatives and a huge inconvenience to labour. Either Sturgeon (and others of influence) were incredibly naïve in not knowing how they would spook the electorate south of the border or they felt a labour led government was not in their best interest, personally I don't think Sturgeon is stupid.

I think the truth is none of us (apart from Neil, of course) knows the answer to this. You say Sturgeon acted in a way that made her aim of a UK Labour government less likely. I don't understand this. She appeared on UK wide television & generally made a good impression by all accounts. What was her alternative? Stay in Scotland & leave Alex Salmond as the public face of the SNP, a much more divisive figure.

[LJS]

The SNP got everything they wanted. Look at the smiles and back slapping while the people of Scotland shit a brick.

Barry, you really really need to get some treatment.

[pink_triangle]

I think the truth is none of us (apart from Neil, of course) knows the answer to this. You say Sturgeon acted in a way that made her aim of a UK Labour government less likely. I don't understand this. She appeared on UK wide television & generally made a good impression by all accounts. What was her alternative? Stay in Scotland & leave Alex Salmond as the public face of the SNP, a much more divisive figure.

Why do you think the conservatives were so happy about the way Sturgeon was acting, if they felt it worked in their disadvantage? The reality is they knew I would spook the English (who have biggest say who run the UK government), Labour also knew it would work against them. Of course its possible that Sturgeon didn't realize the impact it would have, but I don't believe she is that dumb. I have never said Sturgeon had to stay in Scotland. If she really wanted a Milliband government (or at the very least a non majority conservative one) she needed to be non committal about any future deals.

My view is that she wanted to engineer a situation best for the SNP (SNP in power Scotland/conservative power in England) in terms of achieving both short term and long term aims. I have no problem with that if that was her aim, unfortunately democracy involves me having to accept when other people disagree with me. I just find the way she has gone about it a little dishonest.

[pink_triangle]

On a lighter note, I saw on the news a new SNP MP with long hair. I cant remember seeing a male mp with long hair before, am I mistaken??

[LJS]

On a lighter note, I saw on the news a new SNP MP with long hair. I cant remember seeing a male mp with long hair before, am I mistaken??

This will be your man & the converted fire engine he toured around in during the referendum campaign