General Election 2015

[LJS]

yeah, the English were just waiting for the SNP and Labour to conclude their formal tie-up, and then they'd have voted a Labour victory.

FFS, and people in Scotland say that the English don't understand what's going on in Scotland. PMSL.

Yeah, it was Labour who cooked up that scare campaign, and not the guy with Salmond and the SNP on his payroll, and not the tories.

Labour are just so stupid.

And every snipper has it spot on.

No, the Tories cooked it up, the press ramped it up, and Labour fucked it up.

[eFestivals]

Yet it turns out the English are entirely comfortable having a lot of influence over Scottish, Welsh, and Irish affairs. :-/

As comfortable as they are to have Scots running England.

This is where you argument falls down.

Or didn't you notice that bit?

The rejection of the SNP has fuck all to o with anything about Scotland. It has everything to do with the SNP.

Or would Scotland now be accepting a UKIP govt with the same welcome it would have given the "red tories" of 'English Labour'?

[pink_triangle]

So we have to pander to English bigotry by voting for parties we don't like because otherwise the English, in a self-destrutive hissy fit, vote for the Bullindons and the UKIP Lynch Mob?

Where have I said that? I think Scotland should vote snp if that's what they want. I'm not a fan of their over representation due to fptp, but that's the system we have.

I also have little issue of they want to help the torys, that's their democratic choice. I just think they are being a little dishonest about their true intentions.

[LJS]

yes, because "constructive" in a democracy is all about 4% of the vote and with almost no other mandate around the UK to piss money up the wall trying to force that non-majority-supported idea onto the majority.

The SNP campaigned on the very basis of making the UK undemocratic.

When did you miss that part?

The UK is undemocratic. That is precisely fuck all to do with the SNP who have supported electoral reform for years.

You are the first to berate the SNP for blaming all there woes on the English.

Are you sensing any irony here?

[viberunner]

yeah, the English were just waiting for the SNP and Labour to conclude their formal tie-up, and then they'd have voted a Labour victory.

Labour are just so stupid.

No, it turns out the English - fifteen million of them - prefer right-wing parties, racist parties, austerity and bigotry.

Labour weren't stupid. They were led by a clumsy spod (to borrow Charlie Brooker's endearing term).

But what's the point of having 9 million progressive votes (nearly a million of which are from Scotland) when there are 15 million reactionaries in England?

[eFestivals]

Which is not an unreasonable legal position.

apart form the fact it's a "legal position" justified by reading one sentence but not the one that follows it - in other words, duplicitous bullshit - and where no legal opinion in the world backs up the "legal position" that Salmond claimed.

A sovereign currency is an instrument of a sovereign state and not an asset. You won't find any sensible legal opinion that differs.

The asset of a currency is not the currency itself but the values denominated in it.

But don't let that stop you from mindlessly repeating what Salmond has told you to think, rather than thinking for yourself. Thinking for yourself is now banned under the one party state.

[LJS]

Bullshit

Fishshit

[eFestivals]

Why would it be "mental"?

do you understand what "lender of last resort" actually means?

[pink_triangle]

The UK is undemocratic. That is precisely fuck all to do with the SNP who have supported electoral reform for years.

Out of interest do you think they will continue, with the fptp hugely benefiting them. From experience turkeys don't normally vote for christmas.

[LJS]

do you understand what "lender of last resort" actually means?

Can I suggest we discuss the potential currency of an independent Scotland in the dirtindy thread?

[LJS]

Out of interest do you think they will continue, with the fptp hugely benefiting them. From experience turkeys don't normally vote for christmas.

I believe they have already said so.

[eFestivals]

The Scots voted to increase public spending

did they?

The Scot's didn't vote for increased spending back in September when Scotland would have funded that extra public spending, but they did vote in May for more public spending if England was paying. Did you miss that part?

And even for May's vote it depends which part of the SNP's manifesto you wish to highlight.

There's another bit which commits them to austerity-Max .... but just pretend that part's not there, yeah?

[LJS]

did they?

The Scot's didn't vote for increased spending back in September when Scotland would have funded that extra public spending, but they did vote in May for more public spending if England was paying. Did you miss that part?

And even for May's vote it depends which part of the SNP's manifesto you wish to highlight.

There's another bit which commits them to austerity-Max .... but just pretend that part's not there, yeah?

September is irrelevant.

[eFestivals]

Sorry, if putting up candidates & campaigning to have them elected & arguing for a fairer country is so offensive to the English, it's clearly time to end this sham of a union.

The tories repel you, but the SNP repelling others is something different, yeah?

FFS.

Next up, the claim that the English don't like the Scottish, because the SNP and Scotland are the same thing. Oh, not 'next up', you've already repeated that endlessly.

[LJS]

So, to sum up, either the SNP caused the Tory victory because voters down south cannot stomach the results of a democratic vote in Scotland. In which case the Union's fucked.

Or, the SNP didn't cause the Tory victory and you guys all voted Tory & Ukip because you have a fundimentally different view of the sort of country you want, in which case the union is fucked.

Heads its fucked, tails its fucked.

[eFestivals]

Has anyone actually spoken to a real life voter who has said the prospect of Scotland leaving the UK was a factor in their vote? Are there any polls that support it being a significant consideration in where people placed their X?

It's not simply about "the prospect of Scotland leaving the UK".

It's about the SNP advocating spending money that others didn't want spent. There was less than 10% of the UK voted for pissing money up the wall.

It's about the SNP advocating spending more money when they can get it from the English, but not when they'd be financing it from within Scotland - as the differences in campaigns last September and now get to how.

It's about Scotland being the least deserving place in the UK (after London) for extra money, because it's the 2nd most-prosperous part and already has funding which allows it to do more than can be afforded for England.

It's about Scotland wanting that money, while also threatening to fuck off - which implies they'd still fuck off after being given that money, so any UK investment would be 'stolen'.

And it's about Scotland having threatened to welsh on any debts.

So while there's that 6% English who voted for the spending of more money as the SNP wanted, that 6% of English still wouldn't have been comfortable with the other parts that came with it. So just think how it all worked on the 90% who didn't want to piss more money we don't have up the wall.

[viberunner]

If your claiming snp leadership answers questions directly 100% of the time, they are the only political party who I have ever seen do this

Straw man much? I said they answered a fair and direct question fairly and directly. And it as apposite one given the polling leading up to the election.

To have dodged it would have seemed dodgy.

The rejection of the SNP has fuck all to o with anything about Scotland. It has everything to do with the SNP.

Yes, Scotland can vote for anyone it like providing it is London-friendly Labour.

Bullshit

If you think us returning 59 Labour MPs would change today's government you need to recount.

Where have I said that? I think Scotland should vote snp if that's what they want. I'm not a fan of their over representation due to fptp, but that's the system we have.

I'm no fan of it either and the SNP also prefer PR to FPTP.

Then again few in England bemoaned that under FPTP the SNP have historically done disproportionately badly.

In 2005 Labour got 922,402 Scottish votes and 41 MPs, the SNP got 412,267 and 6 MPs.

In 2001 Labour got 1m Scottish votes and 56 MPs, the SNP got 450,000 votes and 5 MPs.

And so it goes back year after year after year after year.

Did you hear Salmond talk about the 1983 three SNP MPs who made Thatcher's life hell? Those three got 330,000 votes, Labour got 990,000 votes and returned 41 MPs.

Anyway, very few, if any, of those years (many of which I was in England itself, being English) did I ever hear anyone in England complain FPTP meant there were fewer SNP MPs than PR would have given. NOW the SNP reached the FPTP tipping-point NOW it's an issue.

UKIP have done badly from FPTP. Under PR UKIP could would have 80 seats being Kingmakers to the Tory 240. Labour's 200 with the SNP's 30 and the Green's 25 AND the Lib Dem 50 would fall short.

That's something to think about. Eighty UKIP MPs.

[eFestivals]

Then thank Christ we have you to explain everything to us.

Have the SNP explain it to you.

Page 24. Read it and weep.

[eFestivals]

Blah blah blah, Murdoch, blah, blah blah, Sslmond, blah blah blah, Sturgeon, blah blah blah...

corrupt SNP, corrupt SNP corrupt SNP.

FFS, you really are a child. The only answer the SNP have to valid criticism about their proven corruption is to shout it down or claim that criticism of the SNP is anti-Scottish.

Face up to what you've voted for. Stop pretending they're different to how the facts prove.

The SNP have been proven corrupt, and in favour of Murdoch.

[viberunner]

So, to sum up, either the SNP caused the Tory victory because voters down south cannot stomach the results of a democratic vote in Scotland. In which case the Union's fucked.

Or, the SNP didn't cause the Tory victory and you guys all voted Tory & Ukip because you have a fundimentally different view of the sort of country you want, in which case the union is fucked.

Heads its fucked, tails its fucked.

Have a +1

It's not simply about "the prospect of Scotland leaving the UK".

It's about the SNP advocating spending money that others didn't want spent. There was less than 10% of the UK voted for pissing money up the wall.

Hang on, since when was social spending "pissing money up the wall?"

Yeah, pissing money up the wall on education and healthcare and not forcing people to foodbanks pish like that.

[eFestivals]

We voted SNP and we got SNP.

You guys voted in the Tories. And in vast numbers, for UKIP.

You guys were going to vote Tory-KIP whether we voted Labour, SNP, or SunAlliance.

No, not me. The UK did.

You know, the country that includes your region.

I can play much smugger than you about how my region voted - because there were less tory votes than in your own region - but I'm not so pathetic as to draw imaginary lines and pretend they mean something different.

[eFestivals]

.... London Labour >...

all hail nationalism, because the UK ran on a nationalist basis will make everything so much better.

[LJS]

corrupt SNP, corrupt SNP corrupt SNP.

FFS, you really are a child. The only answer the SNP have to valid criticism about their proven corruption is to shout it down or claim that criticism of the SNP is anti-Scottish.

Face up to what you've voted for. Stop pretending they're different to how the facts prove.

The SNP have been proven corrupt, and in favour of Murdoch.

And Labour lied to take is into an illegal war. & saddled us with billions of debt through ridiculous pfi scams.

I don't bring these up because they are not relevant to today. When you have something relevant to today, I suggest you bring it up. Until then...

[eFestivals]

Because even if we returned 59 Labour MPs the Tories would still be in a majority government.

would they? How do you know?

We only know that you voted SNP and got tory, the very thing you told the Labour party they were wrong about. It was the SNP's claims that have been proven wrong.

But lets just avoid them having been proven wrong, they're never wrong ... apart from the oil price, the indyref victory that was assured, and everything else.

FFA, your way soon. It's what you voted for. Austerity-Max.

[eFestivals]

Got a source for that? My Google-fu get stuff like this:

Yes, it's called "The Labour Party Manifesto 20152.

I'm glad to see you were paying such close attention to know that Labour fully deserves the hatred you spout.

While your glorious SNP promised to give Murdoch a free hand.

In fact, your glorious SNP promised to lick Murdoch's arse and did. Try googling "salmond leveson".

But the SNP are a principled party, yeah?