More Metallica Controversy

[eFestivals]

Eating meat is done for gratification, not need, no matter how we try to dress it up.

I don't disagree with you.

But at some point, you accept that things are as they are, rather than argue the morals over every matter. We tend to pick and choose the fights to have, and the ones we pick mostly for the fights are the less-certain views, or where they're a reasonable chance of winning.

From the point of view of any society that wants (say) to stop the killing of bears for [just] fun, having an ethical discussion on every difference method and motivation for animal death is possibly self-defeating in the aim of stopping the bear-killing. Because so many eat meat and that's not going to change anytime soon, it means that the bears will get it.

So we pick our battles with purpose, and hope that we can nudge things along to a better place for the bigger fight we might personally want - because no one gets to win any fight in any meaningful way without the public fully behind them.

And now I really should stop being deep and meaningful, and go and have a lie down.

[autoinflate]

Yeah that's a pretty good way of looking at it, I'll go with that, and enjoy my meaty dinner with a clear conscience.

I'm kind of thinking at the same time that hunting, in certain ways, is OK though. I need to give this some more thought - it's not something I've devoted a lot of brain-cycles to over the years.

[eFestivals]

Michael Eavis - without going as far as hunting himself (as far as I'm aware?) openly allows Fox Hunting to take place on Worthy Farm. Now, Michael giving his permission is not illegal so no crime commited there BUT (here's where you seem to be getting confused bless you, maybe stay away from the internet porn for ten minutes and let it sink in eh?) Fox Hunting IS illegal.

Fox hunting is illegal in particular stated circumstances, and not in others. Got that? So it's possible for a fox to be ripped apart by hounds and a court decide that no law has been broken. (that's not me defending that, it's me stating the fact).

Michael and Michael's neighbours are farmers, and, rightly or wrongly, farmers tend to see foxes as a pest - for very good reasons for a farmer's point of view. And so they feel there's a need for some sort of pest control. Traditionally that's been done by hunts, taking all the hassle off the farmer (whether he's wanted that or not).

That's the world that Michael has grown up in, and from his point of view the pest is getting tackled for his &/or his neighbours (perceived) benefit, and as farmers tend to have an easy-ish manner towards the death of animals as a part of the farming process (they'd go mad if they didn't), it's hardly so surprising that an old man of a different era might be taking the wrong view towards these things.

But none of that alters the fact that managing the number of foxes in some manner is considered essential by many farmers, and I can't see that changing any time soon. Foxes will continued to be killed in some manner.

Eavis isn't doing it himself, and he's allowing it (if he is) for the benefit of farming and not for a bunch of w*nkers to get their rocks off at the sight of blood.

Spot the difference to a bit of killing for fun?

If your issue is the hunters then attack the hunters and not Eavis.

[Englishdragon]

So is everyone just ignoring the quotes posted that show Hetfield no longer feels a desire to hunt?

http://www.guitarworld.com/james-hetfield-iron-man?page=0,4

Also in the "some kind of monster" documentary he says how strange he found it that the meat from the bears hunted in siberia wasnt used for food (indicating he usually ate what he hunted)

While he may still be pro-hunting, surely the fact he is no longer active in it should be noted, as is the fact that the tv show he narrates seems to cover highly regulated hunting (limited numbers etc)

The portrayal of him by some posters seems to be very 1 dimensional without taking heed of the actual facts involved (see the anger aimed at him due to a photo of some other guy with a shot bear)

[guypjfreak]

all aload of rubbish theres things in this world that are more important ffs im not even a fan but the is just shite let the band do there shit no banners no shouting please do that some where else ...............

[Martin Ashford]

Enjoy Metallica. Live for metal. Keep it loud. Celebrate the power of rock at Glastonbury......in a field......off your tits....surrounded by amazing people......make history......headbang like a hero.......have a ball....nobody' s perfect......are you?.......so be there......with the noise.....and the chaos.....and the exhileration........and the energy......and the lights.......feeling that bass shake your guts....or maybe.......you'd rather watch a bloke with a whiney voice ...or MGMT....or an old smoothie doing 30's jazz...the choice is yours.

[math125]

Frankly I'm surprised a further petition has not been started to get rid of Kasabian for crimes against humanity. Have you heard that Eez-eh?

Edited June 5, 2014 by math125

[Rocking mouse]

Fox hunting is illegal in particular stated circumstances, and not in others. Got that? So it's possible for a fox to be ripped apart by hounds and a court decide that no law has been broken. (that's not me defending that, it's me stating the fact).Michael and Michael's neighbours are farmers, and, rightly or wrongly, farmers tend to see foxes as a pest - for very good reasons for a farmer's point of view. And so they feel there's a need for some sort of pest control. Traditionally that's been done by hunts, taking all the hassle off the farmer (whether he's wanted that or not).That's the world that Michael has grown up in, and from his point of view the pest is getting tackled for his &/or his neighbours (perceived) benefit, and as farmers tend to have an easy-ish manner towards the death of animals as a part of the farming process (they'd go mad if they didn't), it's hardly so surprising that an old man of a different era might be taking the wrong view towards these things.But none of that alters the fact that managing the number of foxes in some manner is considered essential by many farmers, and I can't see that changing any time soon. Foxes will continued to be killed in some manner.Eavis isn't doing it himself, and he's allowing it (if he is) for the benefit of farming and not for a bunch of w*nkers to get their rocks off at the sight of blood.Spot the difference to a bit of killing for fun?If your issue is the hunters then attack the hunters and not Eavis.

[Mr.Tease]

Enjoy Metallica. Live for metal. Keep it loud. Celebrate the power of rock at Glastonbury......in a field......off your tits....surrounded by amazing people......make history......headbang like a hero.......have a ball....nobody' s perfect......are you?.......so be there......with the noise.....and the chaos.....and the exhileration........and the energy......and the lights.......feeling that bass shake your guts....or maybe.......you'd rather watch a bloke with a whiney voice ...or MGMT....or an old smoothie doing 30's jazz...the choice is yours.

[jeffie]

3

[The Nal]

Love it when posters show their sensitive sides

[eFestivals]

I have seen fox hunting close at hand, I have to say those people was totally getting their rocks off, the most sick part is the blooding of first time hunters. I am from a farming family which have lost livestock to foxes, but I never want to have fox blood rubbed into my face, after chasing it on horseback and watching it ripped apart by hounds. The sounds of that still haunts me years later. It's a blood sport I have no doubt.

I have no doubts either.

But Michael Eavis isn't doing it, and therefore he can't be labelled as one of the animal murdering scum.

Yes, he might be happy to allow those w*nkers onto his land, but not because he approves of their methods, but because he approves of the consequences (the death of a farm pest).

If Eavis changes his mind those w*nkers will still be w*nkers.

If the w*nkers can no longer hunt then it doesn't matter a fuck what Eavis thinks, because no foxes will die that way because Eavis isn't killing them that way.

Approval of hunting by itself causes no hunting deaths. It's the hunters who cause the deaths.

And that's why Eavis's possible accommodation of hunters is not on anything like the same immoral level as the blood lust of those w*nkers who do the actual killing just for the fun of it - like Hetfield.

I hope the rather dim can understand that difference, but I have my doubts.

[autoinflate]

When i see my cat torturing mice in the garden, I sometimes try and intervene and chase the cat away.

Then I think, well what the fuck, the cat was behaving naturally - what am I doing? Trying to train the cat not to hunt? I think I'm more just feeling sorry for the mouse, although I know it's natural for a mouse to die horribly at the hands (paws) of a cat. Or maybe I'm feeling bad because I'm antrapamorphising the animal experience of hunting and being hunted.

I've always been anti-hunting, but now I'm thinking - well, should we train/force people not to hunt? Surely it's natural for them to do it? Or do we need to evolve beyond hunting to purely mechanised killing? Does the cat need to get some smarts and build a mousetrap?

What the fuck am I on about?

[The Nal]

What the fuck am I on about?

[autoinflate]

Try having sex with the cat next time and somehow involve the mouse carcass. It will all become clear then.

[fur_q]

I've always been anti-hunting, but now I'm thinking - well, should we train/force people not to hunt? Surely it's natural for them to do it? Or do we need to evolve beyond hunting to purely mechanised killing? Does the cat need to get some smarts and build a mousetrap?

What the fuck am I on about?

[autoinflate]

yeah, like maybe killing for meat in the future will be considered immoral because we can 3D-print a nice chicken drumstick, star trek style.

then we won't need to breed animals for meat at all, so they won't even have a life to extinguish in the first place.

Edited June 6, 2014 by autoinflate

[Gnomicide]

Genuine question, I'm not trying to be an arse (honest) but are foxes a pest on a dairy farm? What damage to they do?

I don't know if the Eavii also keep other livestock?

[eFestivals]

Genuine question, I'm not trying to be an arse (honest) but are foxes a pest on a dairy farm? What damage to they do?

I don't know if the Eavii also keep other livestock?

I'm not sure if Eavis personally suffers from fox problems for them to be a problem on his own farm, but farmers tend to have the view that they need to support each other over these sorts of things, as foxes don't care about farm boundaries.

I suspect (but don't know) that's how it is with Michael.

[autoinflate]

i would imagine they bother the cattle. a frightened herd is not a happy, bountifully milkable herd.

eavis certainly gets even with the little blighters though - not only allowing a bunch of rosy cheeked nutters on horseback to chase after them with hounds, but also inviting 200,000 people to come and scare the shit out of them for a few days every year.

[Gnomicide]

I'm not sure if Eavis personally suffers from fox problems for them to be a problem on his own farm, but farmers tend to have the view that they need to support each other over these sorts of things, as foxes don't care about farm boundaries.

I suspect (but don't know) that's how it is with Michael.

[blackred]

I have no doubts either.

[nofunciona]

If it was purely for population control, why do so many hunters take pictures with their victims, or mount their heads on the wall? Clearly showing their pride and satisfaction at shooting some defenceless creature in the back of the head.

[autoinflate]

If it was purely for population control, why do so many hunters take pictures with their victims, or mount their heads on the wall? Clearly showing their pride and satisfaction at shooting some defenceless creature in the back of the head.

[Guest]

yeah, like maybe killing for meat in the future will be considered immoral because we can 3D-print a nice chicken drumstick, star trek style.

then we won't need to breed animals for meat at all, so they won't even have a life to extinguish in the first place.