Football 2013-2014

[Kowalski]

Classy stuff from Liverpool's owner. Do they even have a PR dept. at Liverpool?

I don't know what's more surprising, Arsenal going for Suarez or Liverpool not letting him go for £40M - they should be biting Arsenal's hands off at the price. He's a scummy prick who (undoubtedly a great player) spends too much time suspended.

[The Nal]

Classy stuff from Liverpool's owner. Do they even have a PR dept. at Liverpool?

[eFestivals]

Arsene Wenger has stated the bid of £40 million plus £1 for Suarez isn't true. The extra £1 was in fact for Stuart Downing.

[eFestivals]

Classy stuff from Liverpool's owner. Do they even have a PR dept. at Liverpool?

I don't know what's more surprising, Arsenal going for Suarez or Liverpool not letting him go for £40M - they should be biting Arsenal's hands off at the price. He's a scummy prick who (undoubtedly a great player) spends too much time suspended.

If I were Liverpool I'd bite their hand off too - but for an added reason to the trouble that comes with Suarez.

And that's the fact that they don't actually need him. Their performances without him have been at least as good as the ones with him - and perhaps even better.

That's not me saying that Suarez is crap, just that for LFC he ends up controlling how they perform as a unit, because of the way that everything goes thru him.

[The Nal]

I think Liverpool selling Suarez to Arsenal would be madness. If Liverpool are making moves for top 4, Arsenal are the team most likely to drop out.

[TheGayTent]

I'm going to Barnet's new ground on Saturday.

P.S. Liverpool top 4? Cloud cuckoo land unless their summer spending is £100m+ after player sales.

[eFestivals]

P.S. Liverpool top 4? Cloud cuckoo land unless their summer spending is £100m+ after player sales.

it's not. (tho that's not me saying it will defo happen, just to be clear).

Their 2nd half season performance puts them as top four; if they manage to keep that 2nd half level of performances over next season, it's likely they'll be top 4 (it depends on other teams results as well tho).

It's not unreasonable (if everything else was equal) to think that 2nd half of the season level couldn't be maintained over next season, given the much needed upgrades of players they got mid-season.

At the end of the day I don't think they will manage top 4 next season, but mostly because Arsenal appear to be willing to open their chequebook at last. If Arsenal buy this summer similar to have they have in recent seasons then I reckon it'll be tight between those two.

But i'm weighing things up in ways where, for instance, I'm betting on Arsenal getting their shit together towards the end of the season as they have the last couple and perhaps saving themselves via that. Someone else might not give them that advantage.

So while I personally conclude that they won't make top 4 as a very early punt (given that there's lots of buying and selling to happen yet), I don't see it as cloud cookoo if someone gave a slightly different weighting to any number of factors and concluded they would make top 4.

[eFestivals]

I think Liverpool selling Suarez to Arsenal would be madness. If Liverpool are making moves for top 4, Arsenal are the team most likely to drop out.

yep, agreed.

[The Nal]

I'm going to Barnet's new ground on Saturday.

P.S. Liverpool top 4? Cloud cuckoo land unless their summer spending is £100m+ after player sales.

[TheGayTent]

The way I see it is that next season Liverpool will be in a league of their own. Quite a way behind last years top 5 and quite a way in front of the remaining 14.

Liverpool are at least 4 top top quality players away from the top 4. Just can't see Liverpool 1) spending the money required to get those 4 players, and 2) even of they're willing to, attracting that calibre of player to a club a long way behind the rest.

[The Nal]

The way I see it is that next season Liverpool will be in a league of their own. Quite a way behind last years top 5 and quite a way in front of the remaining 14.

Liverpool are at least 4 top top quality players away from the top 4. Just can't see Liverpool 1) spending the money required to get those 4 players, and 2) even of they're willing to, attracting that calibre of player to a club a long way behind the rest.

[kaosmark2]

it's not. (tho that's not me saying it will defo happen, just to be clear).

Their 2nd half season performance puts them as top four; if they manage to keep that 2nd half level of performances over next season, it's likely they'll be top 4 (it depends on other teams results as well tho).

It's not unreasonable (if everything else was equal) to think that 2nd half of the season level couldn't be maintained over next season, given the much needed upgrades of players they got mid-season.

At the end of the day I don't think they will manage top 4 next season, but mostly because Arsenal appear to be willing to open their chequebook at last. If Arsenal buy this summer similar to have they have in recent seasons then I reckon it'll be tight between those two.

But i'm weighing things up in ways where, for instance, I'm betting on Arsenal getting their shit together towards the end of the season as they have the last couple and perhaps saving themselves via that. Someone else might not give them that advantage.

So while I personally conclude that they won't make top 4 as a very early punt (given that there's lots of buying and selling to happen yet), I don't see it as cloud cookoo if someone gave a slightly different weighting to any number of factors and concluded they would make top 4.

[TheGayTent]

Bang on the money (apart from the last sentence possibly!)

[TheGayTent]

Yeah I agree with you but medium term has to be considered here and selling their best player to their nearest rivals, in the medium term, is suicidal.

[kaosmark2]

Bang on the money (apart from the last sentence possibly!)

[eFestivals]

If you could go on half-season performances, then most teams who get promoted would never go down, WBA would be top-4 contenders, etc.

true, but that's (just) changes in form.

The difference I'm using from l'pool is their team having been strengthened by a not-insignificant amount mid-season.

From what i'm remembering of the season, and while there were still dips in their form in the 2nd half, it changed some of the games that they'd have previously lost or won into games they were then tending to draw or win.

Liverpool's run of form at the end of last season was just balancing out poor form earlier in the season.

I'd say that was ignoring the impact that Sturidge and (forget his name) that Brazilian winger made, plus a little too from the continuing development of (forget his name too) midfielder that Dalglish bought from S'land.

Liverpool are the 6th best team in the league at present, and without Suarez they'd be 6th-9th best.

I wouldn't argue too much with the 6th best team bit, tho I'd put them closer (points-wise) to 5th for next season due to that 2nd half of season. I wouldn't be too surprised if they beat Spurs to 5th either - tho that's based on things not working out particularly well for spurs with their summer comings and goings.

And of course they'd be weaker without Suarez, I'd not said different to that. Players of his quality are few and far between.

But they wouldn't drop from 6th on the basis of the games they played without him in the 2nd half of last season, and of course they'd be other player(s) who'd come in if he went who might well take things back upwards.

[pink_triangle]

From what i'm remembering of the season, and while there were still dips in their form in the 2nd half, it changed some of the games that they'd have previously lost or won into games they were then tending to draw or win.

I'd say that was ignoring the impact that Sturidge and (forget his name) that Brazilian winger made, plus a little too from the continuing development of (forget his name too) midfielder that Dalglish bought from S'land.

I wouldn't argue too much with the 6th best team bit, tho I'd put them closer (points-wise) to 5th for next season due to that 2nd half of season. I wouldn't be too surprised if they beat Spurs to 5th either - tho that's based on things not working out particularly well for spurs with their summer comings and goings.

And of course they'd be weaker without Suarez, I'd not said different to that. Players of his quality are few and far between.

But they wouldn't drop from 6th on the basis of the games they played without him in the 2nd half of last season, and of course they'd be other player(s) who'd come in if he went who might well take things back upwards.

[eFestivals]

Didnt you say a similar thing about liverpool last season depending on their second half season form!

I doubt it - their 2nd half season form was dreadful, and kenny got the push, remember?

I do remember saying that their inability to put the ball in net probably wouldn't be repeated in the season that followed (the one just gone) and so it proved!

Im not sure theres any evidence at all that suggests teams who finish one season strong are likely to start the next one strong. I doubt its interesting enough for anyone to bother researching!

Like I say, it's not based on only form, but on a change of personal, and a definite improvement (I don't think there's anyone would argue that it wasn't an improvement) in that department.

People say "ABC have just bought player XYZ so they'll be better" - and that may or may not happen; but few would doubt that's a perfectly reasonable idea.

I'm saying that LFC bought 2 definitely-decent players and it DID improve them. The results show it in just about anyway you care to look at them.

I'm hardly saying anything nuts.

[kaosmark2]

Season before I believe, but yeah. I don't think Liverpool's improvement is enough to get them to seriously compete for the champions league again.

[eFestivals]

Season before I believe, but yeah. I don't think Liverpool's improvement is enough to get them to seriously compete for the champions league again.

I don't think they're quite there (tho as I say, lots of buying and selling to happen yet), but I do think they're much closer to it.

I don't think they'll be "in a league of their own for 6th" as TGT said, I think they'll be a part of the top group but at the bottom of it.

[kaosmark2]

Come late-March, early April I don't see Liverpool being in the mix for top 4, nor do I see them being particularly threatened by teams below them for 6th place. That's the sort of time the league has properly fragmented into sections that aren't going to be moved through and I reckon TGT is right in thinking they'll be a noticable gap above them, and it'd require another team to have an outstanding season to get particularly close to them otherwise.

[eFestivals]

Come late-March, early April I don't see Liverpool being in the mix for top 4, nor do I see them being particularly threatened by teams below them for 6th place.

I'd agree with that.

The difference with my thinking tho is that they won't have dropped a gap of points to 5th place. They'll always be on the tail of 5th, but quite possibly never quite catching them.

[TheGayTent]

Splitting hairs then.

[The Nal]

Splitting hairs then.

[eFestivals]

Splitting hairs then.

nah. You said them making top four was a wacky idea. I don't think they'll make top four, but I do think they'll be there or thereabouts, much like Spurs finished this year. I don't think anyone tipping them for fourth would be mad; they'd just be weighting things a little differerntly to you or me.

The difference for them against Spurs last season is that I don't really expect L'pool to spend much if any time in the top 4 thru the season.

But I do expect Liverpool to be pushing to try and get in there, and the teams above them being concerned that they will.

Edited July 24, 2013 by eFestivals