Football 2013-2014

[LondonTom]

And you could be right. The only person who knows for sure is Carroll.

The simple fact is that the ref has to make a judgement call on how he saw it. Having made that call in one direction, there's nothing about the incident that is likely to make a person think they called it wrong.

You jump one way, and you stick with it. That's what refs do.

Edited February 6, 2014 by LondonTom

[eFestivals]

Which is fair enough I think during the game, but afterwards when you can see it's debatable?

Yep, it's debatable - but you still then have to make a judgement from that.

If the ref thought it deliberate first time, he's exceedingly likely to still think that unless he somehow got a bad view of things at the time.

They also need the ability to say what the Ref was did was right on the time, but looking at the incident on video casts doubt over the foul.

if we're working on the basis of things which can cast doubt then most cards would get revoked.

That's not how it works tho. It's on the balance of probabilities and with that I end up siding with the ref and the FA - there was something too unnatural and extended-til-contact about that arm swing in my view.

I might be wrong, but if I have to go one way that's the way I go.

Edited February 6, 2014 by eFestivals

[DomDom1984]

adam, you have absolutely no idea if Rooney would have a red card rescinded in that situation. It's whataboutery and completely irrelevant. Give me an actual example that's happened and I'll consider it relevant.

[eFestivals]

PS - while I think the ref probably got it right, I do agree that in many ways it's a harsh harsh call.

But then again if he'd got Chico square in the chops like he was probably intending to, it's not at all.

[TheGayTent]

The problem is, even if Carroll wasn't aiming to hit the man, the referee can't really be accused of getting it wrong. He seen a man deliberately swing his arm in the direction of the player behind him. He had every right to send the man off. There is no way you can look at this as a bad decision. Every way you look at it, he still deliberately swung the arm towards Chico.

[eFestivals]

My issue isn't really with the red card or the non-reversal of the decision. My issue is that a poor refereeing (non) decision led to the aftermath. Webb should have blown for a foul on Carroll by Chico Flores

I've got sympathy for that view, particularly as what Carroll appears to have chosen to do was small in consequence.

But at the same time any action a player takes is actionable by the ref (within the rules), completely independently of whether the ref has made previous calls correctly or not.

Carroll is responsible for his own actions, his actions were (judged to be) outside the rules. He's set himself up for the consequences.

[TheGayTent]

Carroll is responsible for his own actions, his actions were (judged to be) outside the rules. He's set himself up for the consequences.

[TheGayTent]

[TheGayTent]

Watch Chico Flores' left arm...

[eFestivals]

Agreed.

That doesn't alter the fact that our so called best referee saw the incident clearly and called it wrong (referring to the initial challenge, not what went on after)

it's another judgement call - and one that's not much helped by how Carroll throws him off. It ends up making that look a bit 50/50.

To me, watching it back, that's a foul by Chico. But at the time I might have gone to blow for a foul and then changed my mind as Carroll threw him off.

At the end of the day any ref lets a lot go that he might decide to blow for. I prefer they do it this way.

[eFestivals]

Watch Chico Flores' left arm...

oooo, not noticed that before!

Chico takes a definite swing first! Not first, but 'as well'.

Edited February 6, 2014 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

that was probably out of sight of the ref, cos of the player running past.

One for retrospective action, surely? On the basis of "ref didn't see at the time"?

Doesn't change anything with Carroll mind. Retaliation: red.

[eFestivals]

Is ref's view of that blocked by Shelvey's bald pate??

I think it prolly is, yeah.

[DomDom1984]

West Ham should be looking to bring that up with the FA.

[adam1234]

adam, you have absolutely no idea if Rooney would have a red card rescinded in that situation. It's whataboutery and completely irrelevant. Give me an actual example that's

happened and I'll consider it relevant.

[adam1234]

Oh and In reference to the above no further action was taken even though it was caught by the tv cameras

[Bobs]

Everton were quite fortunate to beat Utd at Old Trafford, the game could easily have gone the other way, and are currently struggling with a number of injuries up front and at the back. I wouldn't be surprised if Man Utd won that one.

[DomDom1984]

Not being able to quite on this PC is a nightmare.

adam, I can't remember what happened in the second instance you've shown, but the first was considered dealt with because the referee seen it, and since then the rules have changed on what can be dealt with. If that happened now, I'd imagine Rooney would have been dealt with.

[The Nal]

Vidic gone at the end of the season. A 7m quid bargain.

[eFestivals]

rats, sinking ships, etc.

[thetime]

Vidic gone at the end of the season. A 7m quid bargain.

[eFestivals]

You would imagine going out will be rio and evra as well.

And Giggs, and Rooney, and RVP.

And if they've got any sense, Carrick, Fletcher, and Valencia could use their contracts to easily land themselves a decent club.

But hey, don't worry ... Utd do have three players whose value has supposedly risen (rather than fallen) in the last year ... if you're insane. ....one of them is supposed to be Jones, and another is meant to be not-Cleverly.

Edited February 7, 2014 by eFestivals

[The Nal]

No surprise really, certainly not the vidic of 2/3 years ago.

You would imagine going out will be rio and evra as well.

[zahidf]

Vidic gone at the end of the season. A 7m quid bargain.

Edited February 7, 2014 by zahidf

[adam1234]

It is going to be really hard to replace vidic and rio although they are certainly coming to the end now. One thing is for sure the answer is definately not jones and Evans.