Thatcher is Dead

[themuel]

Guys can you stop talking about this now please, I've clicked on this thread three times by mistake when looking for 'The Walking Dead' thread. To a skim reader they're very similar. ;-)

[beau1]

Just posted this on the Glastonbury forum, what do you think?

British Parties 2010

Evolution of 3 Main Parties

World Leaders

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

Added one with Thatcher...

[kaosmark2]

I'm not sure I agree with that graph in regard to the British Parties throughout history.

Up until the 2010 Election the Liberal Democrats were always regarded as Centre-Left maybe Centre at a push but nowhere near Centre-Right. Even on the night of the election they were Centre-Left now they are Centre-Right with a couple of Centre-Left figures.

'New Labour' could be regarded as Centre until 2001 and then they basically took an even bigger swing to the right and ended up being Centre-Right but not as near to the Right as the Tories are now.

I'd have the BNP as basically in the same position as the U.S Republican Party; slightly more right wing compared with the Tories and UKIP but on the same line as they are on for 'authoritarean'. I'd also have Sinn Fein more towards authoritarean but and bring Respect down a couple of bars.

Hitler should also be nowhere the centre; I'd have him in line with Thatcher on the Left-Right axis.

If anyone is wondering here is my result on the test:

Your political compass Economic Left/Right: -5.75

Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.36

So Basically in line with Ghandi. I did the same test a couple of years ago and I had basically the same result

[beau1]

The senior Lib Dems are very much centre-right. Its younger ones who are central.

[kaosmark2]

Depends who you see as senior and younger. Danny Alexander and Nick Clegg are certainly Centre-Right.

Simon Hughes, Charles Kennedy, Ashdown, Menzies, Cable and a few others are most certainly Centre-Left even though they came from well off backgrounds. I'm not sure the majority of them are still centre-Left now mind but they were until 2010.

[Kyelo]

I can't really say being only 25. Personally grew up(which I can properly remember)in a Labour world and they are the party I dislike most, go figure

Anyway Question Time: Maggie Special is on

[kaosmark2]

I can't really say being only 25. Personally grew up(which I can properly remember)in a Labour world and they are the party I dislike most, go figure

Anyway Question Time: Maggie Special is on

[Kyelo]

I'm a year younger than you and I can recognise the different influence between Tories and Labour. Blair's Labour was largely based on Thatcherism though, there isn't a left-wing or barely a centrist party now. 'Red Ed' is just about centrist rather than centre-right in his rhetoric, but there's been little coming from him in terms of policy.

Thatcher's legacy is clear to see. Privatisation of essential state services, right-to-buy without replenishing the social housing stock, the Falklands War, government ignoring strikes. The faults of New Labour - and there are many - couldn't have existed without Thatcher's reign.

[kaosmark2]

Don't get me wrong I'm reasonably well versed on the pros and cons of Thatcherism and her legacy but I never lived through so will never truly understand.

My own view is that she took a country that was pretty f*cked and made it strong again, where she went wrong was being a too hard on the common person.

QT has painted quite a positive image of her I think tonight.

[Kyelo]

I wasn't really sure what you felt you couldn't say regarding. I don't comment on life under Thatcher because I can't, but I can and do comment on her legacy and feel its definitely worth criticising. One thing that hasn't been mentioned much here is the media manipulation she engaged in, and the use of police as a government's army against the public. The Hillsborough lies being a prime example. Not unique to Thatcher, but the extent of it seems to have grown back then.

[thetime]

A list of both the bad and good legacy could be written up, objectively I think history will see her as both.

[Kyelo]

Depends where you lived and how much of a selfish attitude you have.

[thetime]

Your point about where you live, exactly. Most people are posting about a subjective view. Selfish bit?

[kaosmark2]

A list of both the bad and good legacy could be written up, objectively I think history will see her as both.

[Kyelo]

Amount of people who have said 'well thatcher let me buy my council house'. Never mind being the biggest cause of homelesness in this country, which the country is still reeling from today.

I for one have been waiting 25 years for this week.

[kaosmark2]

Disagree with that. I think everybody should be able to buy their home, where they went wrong was not building more to keep up with demand.

[thetime]

Disagree with that. I think everybody should be able to buy their home, where they went wrong was not building more to keep up with demand.

[Kyelo]

Which is why it's important while all the tributes come in that we don't let death etiquette rewrite history and ignore the bad. It took about 2 days before the media's acknowledged her as anything worse than " a great leader and divisive figure".

What 'good' aspects do you see in her legacy OOI? I see the introduction of a system where a few managed to benefit at the expense of not just the rest of their generation but the ones that have followed.

Edited April 11, 2013 by Kyelo

[kaosmark2]

Pros

• basic and top rate tax fell over her time
• average salary trippled
• days lost to strikes drop vastly

Cons

• inflation doubled
• long term unemployment in some areas
• poll tax

Both Pros and Cons

• cleared failing industries
• privatisation
• right to buy
• Falklands
• European battle
• roll in feminism

etc etc

I would also add that without her I doubt the then fractured Labour party would have evolved and eventually win 3 terms with Blair.

[pink_triangle]

Both Pros and Cons

• cleared failing industries
• privatisation
• right to buy
• Falklands
• European battle
• roll in feminism

etc etc

[thetime]

Pros

• basic and top rate tax fell over her time
• average salary trippled
• days lost to strikes drop vastly

Cons

• inflation doubled
• long term unemployment in some areas
• poll tax

Both Pros and Cons

• cleared failing industries
• privatisation
• right to buy
• Falklands
• European battle
• roll in feminism

etc etc

I would also add that without her I doubt the then fractured Labour party would have evolved and eventually win 3 terms with Blair.

Edited April 12, 2013 by thetime

[bunique]

Agree with above posts - she was absolutely not a feminist (she described feminism as "poison").

[gary1979666]

Its all very well giving out facts, you didnt live through the thatcher tears and how her policies affected families. One subject which seems to have passed everyone by is that it was her fault there was mass unemployment. Lets not forget the last recession was in the early 90s shortly after her fucking of.

Failing business? the mines were not failing and there was enough coal for 20/30 years, she just wanted to shut people up and control them.

[thesecretingredientiscrime]

Thatcher's only effect on feminism was to prove you can be despised for being an utter shitsword, not a woman.

[Guest]

You don't have to agree with her politics to recognise she demonstrated that women can be just as hard and as ruthless as the men, if not more so...