"Secularism is a religion...Atheism is a religion"

[Kyelo]

Just a couple of comments from http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-16980025 about how prayers have been deemed unlawful before council meetings.

I have to say I was slightly shocked by the some of the comments as to me I very strongly believe religion has no place in ANY state run office be that a council, a school etc etc secularism to me does NOT say you cannot, as a theist, pray but that it can't be state endorsed...whatever you do personally is your choice.

What do you lot think?

[Kyelo]

Just spotted this as well about the Christian hoteliers who have had their appeal against having to pay damages to a gay couple whom they refused well, refused...

http://www.huffingto...just_reloaded=1

Edited February 10, 2012 by BenchBuddah

[eFestivals]

I can see the Daily Mail bridage having fun for weeks and weeks over this. And here's betting that less than 5% of all those who think it's an outrage to 'ban' prayers ever bother praying themselves. And only a handful will probably realise that prayers haven't been banned at all.

I think the judge got it wrong in saying that councils are allowed to hold prayers but not make them compulsory. Sod that, I pay for my council tax to pay for public services, not to help financially support the self-indulgence of the deluded.

If they wish to pray they're welcome to do it in their own time and on premises that aren't paid for by the taxpayer (which ultimately means that the taxpayer is picking up the cost).

[feral chile]

Just a couple of comments from http://www.bbc.co.uk...-devon-16980025 about how prayers have been deemed unlawful before council meetings.

I have to say I was slightly shocked by the some of the comments as to me I very strongly believe religion has no place in ANY state run office be that a council, a school etc etc secularism to me does NOT say you cannot, as a theist, pray but that it can't be state endorsed...whatever you do personally is your choice.

What do you lot think?

[5co77ie]

If they wish to pray they're welcome to do it in their own time and on premises that aren't paid for by the taxpayer (which ultimately means that the taxpayer is picking up the cost).

Edited February 10, 2012 by 5co77ie

[Ed209]

If they wish to pray they're welcome to do it in their own time and on premises that aren't paid for by the taxpayer (which ultimately means that the taxpayer is picking up the cost).

Edited February 10, 2012 by Ed209

[The Nal]

Make sure the religious nuts keep the prayers to themselves.

Hang the hoteliers who turned away the gay lads.

End of conversation.

[5co77ie]

The first bit I can understand. But you feel so strongly against religion that you would ban praying on public property?!? Ban prayer? So someone on their lunch break, or before their shift begins, or after their day has finished, isn't allowed to have a moment of quiet contemplation to themselves and say a little prayer?

[eFestivals]

The first bit I can understand. But you feel so strongly against religion that you would ban praying on public property?!? Ban prayer? So someone on their lunch break, or before their shift begins, or after their day has finished, isn't allowed to have a moment of quiet contemplation to themselves and say a little prayer?

In the case of an individual in their lunch break praying by themself or whatever, I've got no problem at all. No one should really recogise that it was going on anyway.

I wouldn't ban public premises from being used by religious groups. They're quite welcome to rent the premises if the premises are available for public rental, just as any other group would have to do.

I object to a group of people getting free use of public premises for their group meeting which has no "wider public benefit" angle. Just because that group meeting is religious shouldn't give them any extra rights over any other group meeting that isn't for the wider public benefit.

My objection is ultimately about the abuse of a priveleged position for purely personal and self-indulgent purposes.

Edited February 10, 2012 by eFestivals

[Purple Monkey]

The monetary system is the most powerful and dangerous of all religions, because it has convinced the vast majority of people on this planet that it is real despite being entirely fabricated from nothing.

It is something we all subscribe to just by being born, it divides us more than any other ideology, and very few question its very existence, and most get absolutely fucking terrified and irrational when people challenge its authority.

It's scary how small people think when discussing religions and what really causes the worlds problems. I used to think religions like Christianity were problematic. They're nothing. Every issue to do with religious trouble stems from monetary concerns of some sort - ownership, property or some other bullshit and all religion is, is a tool that c**ts use to put their dominion over others for the sake of petty acquisition. Money money money.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Purple Monkey

[t8yman]

church and state should not mix. its about time the secularists started standing up for that. bravo to the councillor that brought this action.

[eFestivals]

It's scary how small people think when discussing religions and what really causes the worlds problems. I used to think religions like Christianity were problematic. They're nothing. Every issue to do with religious trouble stems from monetary concerns of some sort - ownership, property or some other bullshit and all religion is, is a tool that c**ts use to put their dominion over others for the sake of petty acquisition. Money money money.

well of course - all religions are about ownership. They're an attempt to own and control the truth.

And just as with any state, the first priority of any religion is its own continuance, which means that they first need money via which they can then try to own and control the truth.

If they're not able to own and control the truth then that starts to threaten their very existence - which is precisely why the Christians are now claiming from all angles to "be under attack". They are slowly losing the power via which they can control the truth, and their money evaporates along with that power.

But this is easy. Just wait till these factors start to impact on other parts of the world.

[eFestivals]

However, he said prayers could be said as long as councillors were not formally summoned to attend.

That sound entirely resonable to me...

Absolutely spot on.

So you have to wonder just how fucking thick our govt is. I've just heard on the radio that they plan to "rush thru emergency legislation" to ensure the right to pray.

You couldn't make it up. They really are the most stupid govt there's been in my lifetime. The only 'broken Britian' that exists is in govt and their dim brains.

[eFestivals]

Separation of church and state....

For me this depends on the electorate... If they feel this should be so then fine... Otherwise what's the issue... People power

No.

You might as well be saying that if 50.0001% of people vote for racism we should enact it.

Minorities have rights too. They have as much right to not have to suffer religions or a particular religion as anyone has to practice their religion.

[t8yman]

No.

You might as well be saying that if 50.0001% of people vote for racism we should enact it.

Minorities have rights too. They have as much right to not have to suffer religions or a particular religion as anyone has to practice their religion.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

Separation of church and state....

For me this depends on the electorate... If they feel this should be so then fine... Otherwise what's the issue... People power

[Kyelo]

But we do not generally vote for people based on their religious beliefs.

[Ed209]

However in areas with, for example, large muslim and jewish communities, you will definitely find votes being decided by religion.

[Rufus Gwertigan]

However in areas with, for example, large muslim and jewish communities, you will definitely find votes being decided by religion.

[Ed209]

They might not mention it in their campaigning, but fairly sure these communities (i'm thinking areas such as Bethnal Green, or Golders green, for example) would see the religion of a candidate as an important factor

[kaosmark2]

i wouldn't like to have to pray. I hate having to do it at funerals, I wouldn't want to be having to do it in work. It's all very well saying you could choose to abstain, but then you'd be singled out.

[kaosmark2]

This might be a generation thing but the mere mention of religion for my age group will be followed by laughter, now most will happily say "feel free to worship what you like" however I have never, ever(except an American friend)seen somebody vote because of a politicians religious beliefs...most people I know vote Liberal Democrats because of their policies not because of Clegg(whom is atheist btw).

[kaosmark2]

No.

You might as well be saying that if 50.0001% of people vote for racism we should enact it.

Minorities have rights too. They have as much right to not have to suffer religions or a particular religion as anyone has to practice their religion.

[grumpyhack]

I went to a Cathedral School but I am now a very certain atheist. However I'm still very grateful for the education I received as although the school and the cathedral were mainstream CoE, there was very much a message of examining and accepting all faiths and beliefs.

At the end of one of my adult ed lessons the other day all of the learners apart from a Muslim woman had left. She asked if she could use a corner of the class to pray before she left so of course I left her to it. I just glanced in as I was packing up and I found her devotion quite moving.

I do object to the fact that the BBC's Religious Dept, which organises and runs the Thought for The Day 'God Slot' at 7.55 on the Radio 4 Today programme will not allow slots to speakers from secular organisations - only 'recognised' religions.

Humanists and other secular groups are thus denied the opportunity to offer their perspectives on the world.

[feral chile]

Thoughts about the 2 minutes rememberance silence on 11/11?

Similar thing really.