Football 2011-2012

[eFestivals]

Racism is about attitudes though.

is it?

Is Jim Davidson being racist when he talks about his fictitious black 'mate' called Chalky? He'd say he wasn't because "I don't mean anything nasty by it", yet if black people are offended by it, who's to say they're wrong in believing him racist?

Just consider the recent fuss about the caddy and his comment about Tiger Woods who he used to caddy for. His words were something like "I'd like to shove this award up Tiger's black arse".

Tiger has an arse that's black, so from that angle it's definitely factual. But from another angle, the colour of his arse has naff all to do with anything about what he'd like to do with the award trophy, so why bring race into it?

He might have offended someone without trying to be offensive, but that is very very different to being racist.

I disagree completely.

He might not have meant to be racially offensive, but that doesn't mean he's not been racially offensive.

It's increased by one, not doubled!

if the ban being appealed against is a one matcher, it's being doubled!

[strummer77]

I'm probably not phrasing myself badly. I'm actually someone who is quite PC, very liberal but this is such a complicated issue that it's very hard to write about/sympathise about without sounding like you completely misunderstand racism. With that disclaimer in mind, here I go...

is it?

Is Jim Davidson being racist when he talks about his fictitious black 'mate' called Chalky? He'd say he wasn't because "I don't mean anything nasty by it", yet if black people are offended by it, who's to say they're wrong in believing him racist?

Edited December 7, 2011 by strummer77

[eFestivals]

Racism is about attitudes.

I'd say you're failing to differentiate between 'being racist' and 'a racist'.

'A racist' is deliberately racist. Anyone can 'be racist', whether meaning to be or not.

Suarez is charged with 'being racist', not 'being a racist'. What he thinks his words were are not necessarily what they were.

Given the cultural differences - there's three different ones involved (Uruagrian, French, and British) - it's going to be mightily difficult to unravel and rule on I reckon, and which ever way they lean it's likely that some will think the wrong decision has been made, and for substantive reasons.

[strummer77]

I'd say you're failing to differentiate between 'being racist' and 'a racist'.

Edited December 7, 2011 by strummer77

[TheGayTent]

Awful defending from Smalling.

De Gea hardly covered himself in glory either.

Edited December 7, 2011 by TheGayTent

[lharris92]

a successful day for the city of manchester so far, lets hope it continues!

[thetime]

oooooppppps for united!

same story as its been for the last 6 or 7 weeks, cant put ball in net!

champiopn league, mickey mouse cup pah!!!

[pink_triangle]

You know man utd will be lucky and get apoel ralph!

[Bisque]

Sorry to see both the Manc's out. Wonder if the Duncan Ferguson rumours on twitter are true?

[Ed209]

Sorry to see both the Manc's out. Wonder if the Duncan Ferguson rumours on twitter are true?

[kaosmark2]

Sorry to see both the Manc's out.

[Ed209]

Channel 5 bosses are on the champagne and party powder tonight

[kaosmark2]

OOOH!

Imagine if Chelsea and Arsenal are drawn to play on the same day. That might mean we actually get to watch good, non-English-team based football on Champs Lge nights!

[The Nal]

Channel 5 bosses are on the champagne and party powder tonight

Edited December 8, 2011 by The Nal

[thetime]

I'd say so. Although I cant imagine either Manc club playing anything but the Carling Cup teams in it.

"You'll win nothing with kids" is true this time out. Not enough experience. They'll learn though. Very young players in key positions. The lack of Scholes last night was obvious for all to see. Utd very limited. No creativity in the centre of the park. Everything goes out wide now. Predictable.

[eFestivals]

it's a HUGE hit to both club's finances - both with regard to the FFP rules, and for Utd towards their solvency. It brings a more scary settlement day to the Glazers.

[thetime]

it's a HUGE hit to both club's finances - both with regard to the FFP rules, and for Utd towards their solvency. It brings a more scary settlement day to the Glazers.

[eFestivals]

you would really like united to go tit up wouldnt you?

but we all know it isnt going to happen.

No, I don't want them to go tits up. I'd much prefer they were financially sound.

But they're not, and you reap what you sow. An unavoidable settlement day will come around at some point, and they'll be in the shit.

It's no less easy to recognise than what has happened with the banks and with countries - tho only a few people saw what was coming.

[The Nal]

it's a HUGE hit to both club's finances - both with regard to the FFP rules, and for Utd towards their solvency. It brings a more scary settlement day to the Glazers.

Edited December 8, 2011 by The Nal

[eFestivals]

Yes indeed but Utd are in a much better state on a % pay vs turnover scale anyway.

yup, they are - but it still hinders.

More of a worry I'd say is the effect on profits, because they're of big importance towards staving off settlement day - something that's only been managed so far by taking an overly rosey view of things.

I'm more worried about the football though. Really would've liked to seen the younger lads at Utd play a couple of big Champo League games. Its a transitional year and the lack of Champo League is going to stunt their development somewhat.

I'm not sure that side of things is as big a deal as you're seeing it - depending on what approach the club takes towards the Europa. It gives the opportunity to blood players who wouldn't otherwise get a look in with Euro football, which will have it's own future benefits.

Was really hoping Utd would become a complete team by next season. Only really Spurs and maybe City can say that at the moment.

I wouldn't worry too much about Spurs - they've got 'Arry in charge don't forget.

And City are out of sight already. You're going to have to get used to that one.

[Paul ™]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/europa-league/8942029/Europa-League-guide.html

Pmsl

[The Nal]

I'm not sure that side of things is as big a deal as you're seeing it - depending on what approach the club takes towards the Europa. It gives the opportunity to blood players who wouldn't otherwise get a look in with Euro football, which will have it's own future benefits.

Edited December 8, 2011 by The Nal

[eFestivals]

http://www.telegraph...ague-guide.html

Pmsl

[eFestivals]

True, the very fringe players like ravel Morrison, Pogba etc. But the concern I have is players like Smalling, Jones, De Gea, Hernandez, Rafael, Fabio etc who Ferguson would’ve wanted as experienced first teamers by August. Theres a huge difference between playing against Xavi, Iniesta, Alonso, Ronaldo, Higuain, Nesta etc and playing away in Cyprus on a bumpy pitch against a load of apprentice butchers.

there's a big difference, yep ... tho you might get to play some of the best down the road.

And anyway, I'd say that there's probably more value and useful experience gained "playing away in Cyprus on a bumpy pitch against a load of apprentice butchers" than there is playing a game where you barely get to touch the ball.

I get you, but it could come back to bite you Neil, they’ve a great starting 11 and a good squad.

yup, it might bite me on the arse, I know.

But I reckon I'm safer going with 'Arry's record over many seasons than I am with what has always proven to be a flakey Spurs team that have got their act together for just half of one.

Plus 'Arry's going dowwwwnnnn.

For all their 6-1, 5 nils etc, they’re not. Only 5 points clear. And Utd having being playing well, Spurs had a crap start, as did Chelski and Arsenal. Its not over yet. City have some tough games coming up too in comparison to the chasing pack.

That's not really what I was getting at. I accept that Utd might yet over-haul City this season (tho I personally doubt it).

I was meaning more in the longer term. They're gone, and there's nothing that Utd can do to keep close.

[kaosmark2]

http://www.telegraph...ague-guide.html

Pmsl